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Old Nov 13th 2011, 05:24 PM   #1
 Rick's Avatar
  Apr 2009
  West Salem, Ohio

Cervid: Whitetails
Would be interested to know what evryones thoughts are on Semen Sales/ Artificial Insemination and the effect it has had on the whitetail deer industry or your farm.

If you comment can you please show a positive comment first followed by a negative (if you have one) comment as to the effect this has had on our industry or your farm.

I am not saying I will never AI again or that I will never offer semen for sale off my farm but I am very interested in the opinions that people have regarding this subject.

Positive:I have used AI on my farm and it has given me the opportunity to produce tremendious offspring without the cost of purchasing such an animal both bucks and does. AI has had a very positive effect on our farm regarding the quality of animals we now have.

Negative: Although not a negative that effects my personal farm I believe that semen sales/AI has had a negative effect on our industry, everyone has access to any buck without the purchase of an animal, if AI was not being done in the deer industry I believe we would see much higher prices for our animals both bucks and does.

I am not an expert on this subject so please do not read and or comment thinking that I am, just think this would be good food for thought and communication.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 07:53 PM   #2
  May 2010
  Kinmundy Illinois
A.I. is a way the small guy's like my self and other's that I know in my area are able to use some great buck's that we can not buy our self. It help's us improve our animal's. Semen prices seem to have droped enough over the past 3 year's that I have been watching that now I can use very good quality buck's that I could not have back when I bought my first animal. The small farm's like me have to use a.i. it's the most valuable tool that we have to use.

Negative, for the farm's that produce the top breeder's that are used. There are so many good buck's today and there will be many more to come that semen prices have droped enough that anyone can use some of the good buck's. Not all of them but buck's that are more than good enough. Look on WTE you can buy some good semen for 100.00 great for me, not good if you are selling it.

All in all, a.i. is a plus for every one of us.
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Old Nov 13th 2011, 08:28 PM   #3
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
I think ai is a positive thing for the new guy also.There is some great semen to be had for a real cheap price. The market is flooded with semen that someone can use to produce shooter bucks all day long.

The negitive if there was no semen to be had... Some bigger farm's would put crazy prices on animals off the farm because they know they can!!! Might just as well close all borders and let each state..and farms..fight over the animals that are in that state!!
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 03:58 AM   #4
  Dec 2010
  Sydney, Australia
The greatest advantage of artificial breeding is the ability to watch how genetics develop & how heritable traits are & then go back & use it again more wisely than the first time.

To explain this, I will not spend time or money to AI unless I have good pedigree & provedence(for all species).

Most of the straws I use now were collected in the eighiies & early ninties( from several countries) before people fiddled with crosses (I'm using red deer now as an example but your whitetail should have more subspecies & diversity).

I still have several thousand straws of pedegree from this era & to my surprise,today these are valuable from the conservation/restoration view.

I also know how the great grand kids perform/produce.

Lets say, if want to bring in some new blood for sambar,I dont have to deal with some 600lb animal who wants to hunt me,or kill all the boys I already have.

AI is my friend.

I breed the most endandered species in the world, Moluccan rusa (I also have pure persian fallow but these are much safer).There are only four populations of which I have one.AI is the only way to prevent bottlenecks,& ensure the restoration.

There are many advantages when used wisely.

The disadvantages are people fiddle with & pollute subspecies of deer without an understanding of genetics & heritability.

Cheers Sharkey
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 06:50 AM   #5
  Apr 2009
  Carrollton, MO
Not to highjack your thread, but wondering how many of you guys are doing your own AI? What % of does are being done vaginally, what % lap.? I'm buck-breeding everything this year due to a #@$%-poor conception last year and just being too busy, but hope to be back on track next year.
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 07:12 AM   #6
  May 2010
  Kinmundy Illinois
Originally Posted by ANTLER VALLEY
Not to highjack your thread, but wondering how many of you guys are doing your own AI? What % of does are being done vaginally, what % lap.? I'm buck-breeding everything this year due to a #@$%-poor conception last year and just being too busy, but hope to be back on track next year.

This is the second year that I done my own a.i. last year I did 6 doe's 5 of 6 took, this year I did 8 of my doe's and 5 for a couple other guy's.
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 07:28 AM   #7
 alpha and omega whitetail's Avatar
  Apr 2009
  Annville, Pennsylvania

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Since I am still new at this, here is my perspective on the questions asked.

Positive - I like AI'ing because it allows me to better my genetics even though I am just a small guy who is doing this as a hobby. Now I still must sell some every year to keep my numbers low and so far I have been blessed with some good folks who did in fact buy some of my deer and in turn helped me and I helped them by providing a good price. Now that my genetics are getting better my price for deer will certainly go up as it should but never out of control, again, I do this because I love the animal and it is my passion and hobby. I am using some good semen this year and have even purchased a great doe last year being bred to an up and comming sire this year. Why would I pay so much money for a hobby? Because I just love these animals and I am amazed at how they grow, how they act, their traits and even how they all run differantly. I love going into the doe enclosures and just petting them and I love seeing the big antlers and how the bucks display them for all to see.

Negative - Not sure I see one

AI'ing - We do not do our own we have someone come in to do it. Last few years we did lap but this year we tried vaginally since our concertion rate the past few years was not exciting at all, we need to try something else.

Again, I am new to the owning deer part, only 5 years now but the farm I keep my deer on is very good with some exceptanally large typicals and they have been doing it for a great many years.
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 08:52 AM   #8
 ToddM's Avatar
  May 2009
  Fulton, Michigan
I live in Michigan, which up until a month ago had closed borders for 8 years. Even now the borders are only opened to some people (depends on your status) and only 10 deer can come to your farm over a 5 year period. This has made AI a necessity if we want to compete in a national market and produce bigger and better bucks. Without AI, you are limited to buying does directly off the farm within our state. It would work like a pyramid deal, thos who have the best deer would greatly profit and the rest would spend all the money. AI puts everyone at the same advantage to make bigger and better deer.

Downside? I dont see one. If a person thinks enough of their buck to collect him, that is there right to do so. Let him sell it for what he wants and let us not criticize him. One mans garbage is another mans treasure.
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Old Nov 14th 2011, 02:44 PM   #9
  Nov 2010
  Bemidji MN
I was able to select this yr first yr to breed I had some great choices Hardrock, Blaster, Wrangler, Highplains Drifter to breed with a great doe I got from Matt at the Circle J Ranch

do to unforeseen circumstances I was not able to get the semen in time to Matt for AI so he was able to AI with Headgear for me.

The down side I see as a new guy from reading these forms is all the big guys are complying about price of deer way down and that tells me the market is flooded with all these great deer (Supply and demand)

This is only my opinion it's not to offend any one
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 04:23 AM   #10
  Jul 2010
  Waynesboro, Pa 17268

Ai has had an impact on our industry for sure. It has created extra revenue for farms to help cover cost associated with running a farm. For the new deer farmers it allows them to get new genetics that are not in there given geographic area. It can be used to help establish a small farms foot hold in the industry with out the expensive purchase of an animal. I buy semen all the time that i may never use. But its cheaper to maintain than a live animal. I guess you could argue that it hurts the sale of your bucks but however it does help the sale of your doe.


The only negative that i have is how hard it can be on the animals them selves. Whitetails are really resilient animals and can do very well with the handling the get during this time period. I do think that AI can be less stressful on the animals than live breeding but it does have its different risks associated.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 04:45 AM   #11
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
Positive You can bring new blood into your farm without having to bring in animals from other places. You can breed with many sires in one season with out the cost of feeding and caring for them all year. Also you can preserve your favorite sires semen and use it when ever you want.

Negative The only thing I see negative is the time it takes and the sress handling puts on the deer.
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 05:09 AM   #12
 Rick's Avatar
  Apr 2009
  West Salem, Ohio

Cervid: Whitetails
great comments everyone keep them coming, i find this very interesting and hope you do too
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 11:23 AM   #13
 Whitetail Sanctuary's Avatar
  May 2009
  Chillicothe, Missouri
Rick, We have used A/I to improve the genetics and the genetic traits in our herd and when it works it is an AWESOME tool for a deer farmer to use on his or her farm. It has it's risks and it's rewards as with any task in life!

Negative: Well that is all in the eye of the beholder. I feel and talking with many others that A/I and Semen sales.........Have had the biggest effect on the industry .....GOOD or BAD. I can think of no other thing that has had such an effect on our industry that in such a short priod of time has made it possible to get some of the top genetics on anyones farm almost over night. We have been able to dip into the genetic pool of some of the best of the best and what they had selectively bred for years and use it take everyones farms to a whole new level. I believe if the first deerfarmers who pioneered semen sales could have looked into the future I wonder if most would have done some things differently. I doubt they ever invisioned splitting straws and Lap A/I could or would be so commonly used and be so successful in such a short time.

I think our Industry will continue to evolve and change in the next few years and I wonder if semen sales will continue a leveling off period as more and more farms have and are producing thier own "SUPER SIRES"!

I will be interesting to say the least!

Best of Luck to All!
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Old Nov 15th 2011, 01:39 PM   #14
 La. Bone Collector's Avatar
  Aug 2009
  Winnsboro, LA
I want to reiterate my opinions as expressed on a different post of Curt Waldvogels earlier this year. His post pertained to thoughts regarding semen contracts. I still stand behind what I said then. I personally have enjoyed being able to have access to a wide diversity of breeder quality semen. It has allowed me to pursue specific breeding goals I otherwise could not have achieved. On a downside, I would say how a person markets his or her animals/semen is what is the negative. Selling too much semen/too low priced/ No semen. Some questions I ask myself:

1) Do I try to prove the heritability of my deer ,bucks & does before selling semen etc?

2) Do I try to have specific lines true to their character, typical & non-typical in my herd?

3) Do I breed for production or pedigree, or what's hot now?

4) Do I exhaust all avenues for sales other than just auctions?

5) Do I have realistic goals?

I can only say that there is no down side to AI. Its the individuals decisions that negatively effect our industry!

Food for thought- "If the only way you could get a specific bloodline was to buy it instead of AI, would you make more money in the long run"? " If all the top dogs in the biz used a no-name buck, would you"?
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Old Nov 17th 2011, 01:26 PM   #15
 Whitetail Sanctuary's Avatar
  May 2009
  Chillicothe, Missouri
Jason, Very interesting points! I wonder how many farms take all that into consideration ?
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