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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 09:03 AM   #1
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
I haven't heard any news on King Kong. Is he still alive? Any pics? If anyone knows please post as I would like to know. I'm thinking of using him this year.
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 10:13 AM   #2
 
  Jun 2009
  saskatchewan
Hi as u probably know King Kong is owned by Russ Walk JR if u are interested in info on him why dont u just give him a call. 814 330 6861.



And just wondering why every post with a buck inquiry includes IS HE STILL ALIVE OR DID HE DIE?????





What about timberjack? I see Sam post on here alot and was wondering about him. I know he got sick last year, did he die?

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Richard Glass- Tanglewood Deer Farm



Also what about promise land? Is he still alive? Look good

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Richard Glass- Tanglewood Deer Farm



Is this deer alive? If he is does anyone have any pics. He was a great yearling last year but I haven't heard anything about him this year. I figured he was dead or didn't turn out.

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Richard Glass- Tanglewood Deer Farm



Rolls Royce must be smaller because there is nobody talking about him. And there has been no pictures of him. Is he dead??

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Yes I like him too. Is he still alive. Someone should know.

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For those of us that own valuable bucks, those types of approaches to questions are terribly anoying. Sorry just my 2 cents.



Todd R
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 10:58 AM   #3
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Well Todd r? I'm glad you keep up with my post. I ask those questions because 1 year a buck is hot and you see him everywhere. Every magazine, every flyer,etc.. People buy this semen at a high price and use it and they want to see them the next year. But it seems like they fall off the face of the earth the next year. Why?? We don't know if their alive or not. Some breeders won't say so they can keep charging high prices on the semen from years past. If he's not as big it's no big deal just tell us. These deer all had problems. Getting sick, shot, etc. So alot of us are just checking on them. The small breeders like myself, when we invest in good money semen we try to follow up on the bucks year after year. I don't know why you got affended by me asking. Do you own one of these deer? I ask all these questions because I know that the owners of them are on this forum all the time. So I figured they would answer. Alot of breeders like to keep up with the bucks they like and when you respond like this it puts a sour taste in our mouths. It's like you are trying to hide something. All I want to do is buy good semen to better my stock but if it's offending someone buy asking these questions then that is a person that I will not want to do business with. I want someone to be honest and tell potiental buyers about their deer that's all. Like I said I don't know who you are and how or why this question offended you but I know that the owners of King Kong has alot of time and money invested I'm this animal and I though they might appreciate other breeders caring about their animal and it's health
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 01:32 PM   #4
 
  Jun 2009
  saskatchewan
Richard, i understand your point of wanting to keep up with bucks that you have invested in, we all try to do the same thing. And when a breeder asks on this forum how a buck is looking or doing this year i think we are all interested in hearing and seeing updated pictures and flattered that people are thinking of our bucks. I was just wondering why the IS he dead question every time?? It is just negative or an attempt at gossip. When a buck dies it is pretty common knowlwedge on this forum and throughout the industry , i dont think anyone is trying to hide the facts for any reason. Last year when we lost Ebenezer we let everyone know right away on the forum before breeding season so they could make their AI decisions accordingly, bucks do lose alot of steam once they are gone. I think most breeders would do the same. As for keeping up with bucks you have bought semen from, Im pretty sure if you have invested in semen and spent money with a breeder and would like to see the progress of that particular buck all u would have to do is email the breeder and he should be more than happy to email you pictures. Many breeders dont like to post pictures early on the forums, they are not trying to hide anything, they just feel it is not the right timing or stage in the growth period to post the pictures to best represent that particular buck and that should be their call, they have the most to lose. Who are we to judge or speculate. As for keeping up with your posts, i really dont, just notice that same question every time????? I guess if you ever have a big breeder you might feel the same way, flattered if people ask how he looks, or ?????? if people ask if he is dead. IM sure if in the fall you are seriously looking at using any of these bucks in your program the owners would be happy to share photo's, pedigree's and any other relevant info with you. But asking continuosly about every deer in the industry and where the pictures are in june is just childish. Sorry



Todd R
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 03:32 PM   #5
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Well Todd I hate your loss in ebenezer. But I still don't know why you are bent out of shape. If you look at when those questions were asked it's because there were lots on whitetail exchange that I wanted to bid on. The rolls Royce lot said he was bigger this year and didn't have any pics. I think that if you say on there they are bigger or whatever put the info on there with the lot. Then I won't have to ask on the forum. There is some lots that I want but if me asking these questions is offensive then I just won't bid on them. As for timberjack I really like SAMs deer and I know he had problems. I was just hoping for the best for him. I don't know that me asking about 3 or 4 deers health is asking about all the deer in the industry though. And I don't think it's childest to ask these questions when you are thinking of investing alot of money. I am assuming since you are partners with the walks that is why you are being defensive. The walks have great deer and are good people but I don't see why you jumped my ass for asking these questions. But I will say this, your post on here has rubbed me the wrong way so I will refrain from bidding on your lots on whitetail exchange. Like I said if you have it in a auction for sale I don't think these questions are too much to ask. I don't want to pay alot of money for something if I can't get all the facts up front
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 03:35 PM   #6
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
I just am saying that if a deer is dead or don't turn out let us know please. Because not saying up front is telling us to assume their still alive and so you can still get a higher price. Not saying anything is what has people guessing
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 04:06 PM   #7
 
  Jun 2009
  saskatchewan
Richard, first of all i am not partners with the walks nor am i defending them or believe that they need to be defended. As for lots that involve me on whitetail exchange well that is your call, you cannot make everybody happy all the time. I understand what you are saying, and believe that it is smart to do the research before you buy a lot. What i am saying is that if you are truly interested in a lot or like you say(spending alot of money) the seller would most likely be more than happy to spend time talking with you or corresponding through email, i just dont think that the seller should be in some way obligated to post pictures on a public forum until it fits there marketing stategy.I guess what i am trying to say is maybee the forums are not the proper place to ask if the intention is of a business nature. As for the reason for my original post i just was trying to say that i feel it is poor ediquite to continualy ask if every sire you inquire about is dead. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.



Todd Rawlake
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 04:26 PM   #8
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Its not my fight on this deal but i kinda feel the same way as richie on this one!!!If you are going to say a deer is bigger this year than last it should be shown!!Take rolls royce for example,I also have intrest in this deer as i MABEY have a bred doe by him.I also have an intrest on the lot on the exchange but not so sure on biddin without seein!!I see some great shots of rold gold so he is no secret!!Mabey he is the way to go!!Either way its up to the owner to decide BUT i know they are losin some by not makin them visiable to deer farmers!!Also where is there a better place to ask a deer question than on this site???You lost me on that one!!!
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 05:09 PM   #9
 
  Jun 2009
  saskatchewan
Four Seasons, my intention was not to fight with anyone. I agree it would be nice to see pics of Rolls Royce and all the other bucks. As for it costing Russ Money for not posting the new pictures maybee, maybee not? it may be hurting this current lot but not necisarily the bigger picture?



Consider this, What if a buck is consistantly a proven late grower and a producer puts out pictures early on the forum just to have someone get on there and say wow that buck sure isnt doing it this year??? What does that cost in the big picture??? Even if the buck finishes strong some damage is already done. There are alot of things to consider when marketing a premium animal?



Like i said i would find it hard to believe that if a potential buyer contacted a seller directly and wanted info or pics before bidding on the lot that the seller would not be more than happy to oblidge, if they wont share them at that point i would be sceptical too. But the thought that if you are going to put a lot out you all of a sudden have an obligation to produce pictures to all parties, both potential bidders and all others, i guess i cant agree with that.I guess you just have to base your decision to bid or not to bid based on the info you have.



As for Rold Gold, those pics were taken by Heath, not Russy. Rold Gold is on a different farm than Rolls Royce and King Kong so it is hard to compare the two situations When it comes to pictures.



I think that the forums are a great place to ask deer questions and have casual conversations, enjoy pics once people decide to post them. I enjoy the forums very much for this reason. I said that the forums are maybee not the best place to make inquirey's if they are more than just casual. I think that if you are serious about investing in a lot or a specific deer and you have a question that is important enough to ask it would be important enough to make a direct inquiry.
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 05:29 PM   #10
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
I agree 100% and i have a deer off jr's farm that was in the pen with rolls royce all winter so can only hope for the best as it was a first breeding but i can say that i for one would like to see updated pics as heath is doin with rold gold and the other bucks on the main farm.I guess mabey i should have went with rold gold.Either way we can only go with what the owner of the deer decides to do.I must say it is nice and i think will sway some people to do what heath is doin by showin what they are lookin like every couple weeks.Mabey some dont like to take pic's!!!Who know's!!!
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 05:38 PM   #11
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
The way I see this issue is the owner has the right to do whatever he chooses. But, the buyer has the right to ask any question he would like. It maybe the owners deer but when he takes my money I feel I have the right to ask questions. If he wants to wait for him to grow out and nobody ask questions, then he should wait to sell the straws. The owner is not the only one at risk.
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 07:46 PM   #12
 
  Jun 2009
  saskatchewan
Brett i argee 100% the seller should and most likely would have no problem to provide pictures to people who have invested in the deer if they request them. But as i stated in the previous post that doesnt mean he should have to post them on a public forum before he feels the timing is right for that particular deer.



You are also correct when you state that the owner is not the only one at risk.He has previous investers in the deer where he is trying to protect their investment and releasing pictures prematurly is not the way to help thier investments reach their maximum financial potential.



Todd R
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 08:42 PM   #13
 
  May 2009
Todd maybe your trying to help is actually hurting .You have drawn all this attention to a question that wasn't directed to you.
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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 08:59 PM   #14
 
  Jun 2009
  saskatchewan
Rocks and Racks, Thanks for the insight this will be my final post so i will be happy to let anyone else get the final word. Its really not that important to me and i spent enough time on this already.



I am really not trying to help anyone. If you read this thread from the very start, i was just saying that in my opinion it is poor ediquite to ask IS THIS DEER STILL ALIVE with every buck inquiry.



I guess some of you dont see it that way and consider this to be a normal question??????



Best Regards,



Todd Rawlake

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Old Jun 22nd 2010, 09:54 PM   #15
 
  Jun 2009
  Tyrone, PA
Last year at this time Rolls Royce was just balling up for his G 2's. I know that may sound shocking but he shed on May 16th as a yearling and started very late as a 2 year old. He was a 4 point on this day last year! I chose to wait and let him grow a little before jumping the gun and righting him off and this is how he looked in August at 2 yrs! He scored 287 BC, had 57 inches of mass, both G 2's and 3's were over a foot and I was very happy with his frame and balance. This year he has over 30 points today and is a lot bigger than last year at this time. How will he finish? I don't know. I hope he grows real late like he did last year. If he does then he will be huge. If not he may be average. When I sell semen for example on Whitetail Exchange I know that the price will be affected due to holding out on pictures. All I can say is the buyers who buy early get there semen cheaper usually because they buy into the risk that the deer may damage or die or anything that could slow him down. This higher risk investment is for you to decide. Over all I am satisfied with Rolls Royce at this point and feel confident to sell some semen. His sons are looking very promising too. I hope that those who invest in my deer can have the fullest most prosperous opportunities and that is my intention. I would love to be in the deer business for a long time and look at these choices from a more over all stability of the sires future which is protecting the past investors and building a solid future for my farm. I am not taking this personal and I know you guys are just asking because probably 80% of the best bucks have not been posted on here yet. I'm in the majority.



As for King Kong the buck that this tread was started about. He is growing surprisingly well right now. He started real slow and his body looks terrible. After shedding that long winter coat we could finally see what he actually looked like after a long winter and he was all ribs and hips. I'm happy he is alive after all he has been trough and feel blessed to own a share of him. My goal is to have King Kong in every single pedigree on my farms in 3 years. Here is why. My bias opinion is that his mother (a Savage doe) brings great consistency to King Kong's pedigree and potential future offspring and his sire is King Pin is arguably the best producing sire ever. Think about it... King Pin had 7 yearlings that averaged over 240 last year!!! and that was produced in his first year of offspring. How many super sires would we need to put on a piece of paper combined to get 7 yearling offspring to average over 240? 2? 4? 6??? Remember many of these sires would have breed for many years and have hundreds of sons to pick from. No other sire has produced a 300" yearling. King Pin has a 331 and an almost 400! The stats don't lie and for me this is the production power that I need in my program. Rolex would certainly be on that list as a great producer and he is the sire to 3 of my breeder bucks (Rolls Royce, Time Bomb and Promise Land). Shadow would also be on that list as well and he is the sire to Energizer who is also out of a Rolex doe. I hope to bring full circle pedigrees with King Pin, Rolex and Shadow and many others to create consistency for me. Kong was 24" inside and for anybody that saw his yearling antlers most would say he was a brute. I hope he recovers well over the next months for live breeding and saves me some LAI $ because Kong will be getting girls as a spike or 500 incher this year.
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