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Old Nov 1st 2014, 04:19 PM   #1
 
  Jul 2014
  Waveland, Misissippi


Two weeks ago at a public hearing at the Nc wildlife commission building it was a sob story and violin playing scene. It was a public hearing and the wildlife federation/camo coalition bunch and questionable deer management bunch were cramming the room. Non brought any science or research facts. Only opinions and suggestions. We heard cwd being compared directly to ebola?? How stupid does one have to be. Its a hemorrhagic disease for gods sake. And to hear a person that worked in the past in the wildlife industry but is a ardent supporter of the qdmrs *agendas make that statement!!. Local new paper reporter said later how ridiculous that was.


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At least I got a thank you from a couple* commissioners for bringing factual data to the hearing.* It goes to show the limits some of these people will go to. Too bad they don't have the balls to man up in media covered forum to answer to all the statements and blame games they have spread on the industry, but never talk smack about state agencies moving animals or disease in free range. Unity in the industry between producers, educating the public correctly and being a forefront in showing how much science and research is obtained from the cervid industry.
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Old Nov 2nd 2014, 11:59 AM   #2
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep


Ebola*would be closer to EHD but it just shows what morons we have working against this industry.* No fear about EHD from these people which is killing more deer in one season than CWD has since the 1960's.* Really what difference does it make the DNR will accomplish nothing when it comes to disease control as they only play the it's your fault game with the industry.* When this industry finds the live test or a vaccine this disease will be mute and they will have to find another rally point for the public to get support from them against this industry.* In the 1980's it was mengenia worms here in Montana that the DNR used to stop this industry from importing whitetail deer.* Same old program just a different made up problem blamed on the industry.* I've always said how can the DNR be our regulator*agency when they want us closed down?
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Old Nov 2nd 2014, 03:50 PM   #3
 
  Jul 2014
  Waveland, Misissippi


Quick question, What will the* alarmist, qdmrs, hsus,*wildlife federation group or the liberal media*be when coding is complete and *there is a vaccine developed with the help of our industry??*We don't see any of these groups giving money to research labs, Just spending their followers money on media adds and press releases and more opinions.* What will* there next marketing tool be for bringing in revenue for their non profits??? or to lobby against the producers, and agribusiness owners??* Rhonda* Jerry or*G O or Travis*I would love to hear your thoughts on this question.
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 07:22 AM   #4
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Jon

Indeed it would change their narrative but would not stop them from attempting to slander high fenced private ranches. Our high fenced private property is an impediment to their egalitarian model for wildlife management. You will see our opposition pivot to using sites like the "Texans for Saving Our Hunting Heritage" page on Facebook. Texas only has CWD in the wild. More high fenced ranches there will slow the threat and progression of CWD eastward across the Texas landscape. These wacky groups are not to going to go hide under a rock somewhere. Science and fact will always trump their naive assumptions. It is up to us all to continue to inform the uninformed.

Jonathan
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 08:17 AM   #5
 
  Jul 2014
  Waveland, Misissippi


I agree and its that so much of the general public and a good majority of the outdoorsman don't have much knowledge of the cervid industry or farming industry.*Only what these groups release to the public which is only single sided and negative format delivery. It does not amaze me at how much the uninformed believe this form of information. As I said before its up to us to become a more *united group and get the science based information and truthful facts about the industry to the public. Again education, and science are what will prevail over the media hype and misinformation.
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 12:28 PM   #6
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep


This industry has worked so long under the idea the problem will just go away.


Correct information not*given has allowed the issues to be addressed by morons who gave false information to fit their agenda*but because the industry has not given their side with real facts the false information was assumed to be true by the public.* Our problem has been the fault of the industry because like the cattle industry we never put out ads to set the public straight.* The cattle people did put out information and got help from the Livestock Health people in their fight when they had Mad cow.* *We have now realized our mistake and are doing something about it* With all the money this industry has made it's about time they spent some on advertising our product and it's health..
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 01:02 PM   #7
 
  Dec 2010
  Sydney, Australia


Producing a "vaccine" for prions is going to be a huge challenge for the scientific community. What is the the honest opinion on if & when a "vaccine" will be available?*


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If a vaccine not on the immediate horizon, should it even be raised as a defence ATM?*


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Sharkey
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 02:18 PM   #8
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota


Sharky, *the problem i see is that they still don't understand the infection vectors of CWD. *Remember, that the the "Prion Theory", is still a theory. *I heard one researcher say, he thinks the prions are the by-product of CWD, not the cause. *He believes there are some other infectious agents involved. *What if he is right?


They have been going down this prion road for over 30 years and seem to have come to a dead-end. * *If they truly don't understand the disease, doesn't it make it 100 times harder to find a vaccine??


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On another note. *I think we need to address "what" is considered CWD, or maybe I should say "when". *Do these animals that are showing up nymph positive and brain stem negative, are they really CWD positive? *


If you look at the definition of CWD, it is when the holes are formed in the brain tissue. *If they aren't there, are they positive, *just because the lymph node has the infectious agent, that "may" turn into CWD?


In Brakke's case the papers made a big ado about them having a 79% positive herd. *But in reality, they had a 52% positive herd, with 27% positive nymph node "infected" only. *These 27% really aren't CWD positive, as per definition. *In Minnesota, we only have to test brain stem. *They would have been not positive here. * The other 21% showed no infection, in any tissue. *Would these animals be considered "resistant", or "immune" from CWD? *What if these animals would have never have gotten CWD in that setting? *We killed them anyway. *What if these animals had the resistant genes that they are finding in elk??? *What we really need is a live test. * We have to show that these animals don't have CWD. *Then let's see what excuse they use to close us down and shut their borders. *


Even with a vaccine. *They will say that just because we vaccinate our animals, they may still carry the "infectious agent", that could cause or carry CWD to other animals.


Gary
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 02:19 PM   #9
 
  Dec 2010
  Sydney, Australia


I've just had a look on the QDMA forum (as they do here, G'day Brian). It appears some in North Carolina have prevented new farms opening which contain deer indigenous to NTH America, this has been portrayed as a win in managing CWD. To me its a classic case of parapraxis within the culture of the administrators & antis & betrays their true intentions.


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Elk are just large red deer. Red deer (& sika) pose as much threat of CWD as elk, I have no doubt that the good folks from the other side of the fence are aware of this. Yet they are only concerned about farming native deer not exotic. *Hmm? A slip that Freud could have written a whole book on.


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Sharkey
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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 02:27 PM   #10
 
  Dec 2010
  Sydney, Australia
G O Whitetails993491415056728



Sharky, *the problem i see is that they still don't understand the infection vectors of CWD. *Remember, that the the "Prion Theory", is still a theory. *I heard one researcher say, he thinks the prions are the by-product of CWD, not the cause. *He believes there are some other infectious agents involved. *What if he is right?


They have been going down this prion road for over 30 years and seem to have come to a dead-end. * *If they truly don't understand the disease, doesn't it make it 100 times harder to find a vaccine??


*


On another note. *I think we need to address "what" is considered CWD, or maybe I should say "when". *Do these animals that are showing up nymph positive and brain stem negative, are they really CWD positive? *


If you look at the definition of CWD, it is when the holes are formed in the brain tissue. *If they aren't there, are they positive, *just because the lymph node has the infectious agent, that "may" turn into CWD?


In Brakke's case the papers made a big ado about them having a 79% positive herd. *But in reality, they had a 52% positive herd, with 27% positive nymph node "infected" only. *These 27% really aren't CWD positive, as per definition. *In Minnesota, we only have to test brain stem. *They would have been not positive here. * The other 21% showed no infection, in any tissue. *Would these animals be considered "resistant", or "immune" from CWD? *What if these animals would have never have gotten CWD in that setting? *We killed them anyway. *What if these animals had the resistant genes that they are finding in elk??? *What we really need is a live test. * We have to show that these animals don't have CWD. *Then let's see what excuse they use to close us down and shut their borders. *


Even with a vaccine. *They will say that just because we vaccinate our animals, they may still carry the "infectious agent", that could cause or carry CWD to other animals.


Gary


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Cheers Mate.


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The issue as I see it is that, various stakeholders are deflecting responsibility for the management & abatement of this disease onto a soft target. The best defence against this is to rebut with mature & assertive arguments, not fall into immature tit for tat games. This means that if deer farmers are going to get on the front foot, every argument must be supported. If there is no vaccine on the radar, it only raise another argument that can be exploited by them.*


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I would also stop calling it CWD & start calling it Scrapie, see how that changes the game.


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Sharkey

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Old Nov 3rd 2014, 02:54 PM   #11
 
  Jul 2014
  Waveland, Misissippi


In regards to NC, Yea the fellow calling himself outdoor dad is another alarmist with no true understanding. The Governor signed into law in August that new captive permits were to be issued, The allowance of the sale of deer instate and the sale of deer out of state was also allowed as was semen, urine, hides antlers and mounts. The state wildlife commission last Thursday held a meeting to hold a vote on the ruling by the house of reps and the bill signed into law by the Governor and they voted to allow the permitting of red, Sitka and fallow but did not allow whitetail or elk permits. Several law firms are* looking at this and one has concluded that the state wildlife commission is in violation of a state issued law.


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They claimed (state) said they have moved the wording about public trust doctrine to the state att generals office for further understanding. Another stall tactic they have pulled for years now. The commissioners had a private meeting with the NC deer farmers asso in Oct and stated they wanted to trying to build a working relationship and open dialog . Which most found it to just be another lie by the commission. The house is out for the fall but will return for long session at the first of the year. When this happens the ice that is very thin on a few peoples feet will probably break.** The deer farmers also wanter oversight moved to the DOA because they are more capable of understanding this industry where the state wildlife does not. The NC*state wildlife commission does not even have any qualified staff*in the cervid industry on board. The state wrc has been show to most to be two faced and biased and only do what serves its own needs. The wildlife commissioners themselves are mostly rich guys with no wildlife management experience in their resume . They are mostly democratic political appointees and do not check out things first hand for themselves . They rely on a biased*state employee*and lots of influence from the questionable deer management asso and the camo coalition. They were also offered on two occasions since 2012 to visit and tour deer farms in PA, Ohio,*or Alabama but chose to be ignorant and not be open to reason or suggestion. Why does the state wildlife claim they are the best to oversee a industry they don't have qualified staff for and proved they don't want , So why not it*move to who has the experience. The DOA**The law stands as the Governor signed and its gonna be pretty hard as legal action is being reviewed as of now. *


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To add to what G O said earlier I think we also need more than one set of eyes on this subject and move beyond the prusiner theory as after about 17 years and over 100 grad students in California*they keep running into the same dead ends. This makes no sense..
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