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Old Jun 20th 2013, 08:38 PM   #16
 
  Apr 2009
  Poplar Bluff, Missouri
What a great post Gary !! Deerfarmers, if you enjoy raising deer it's time to come together. How can we let the HSUS infiltrate our industry?? How can we take this anymore ? Do one thing for yourself. Many havnt been in this industry that long but think back 10 years ago. How much regulation was there back then ? How fun where those days . I talk to cattle farmers and they can't believe what kind of regulations that we are held to. They would nt put up with that and neither should we. We can't continue to be pushed back this hard !
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 04:51 AM   #17
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
If they have the power to shut us down, And i guess they do? Why would they go the long way about it? Why would'nt they just pull the plug? Ny and Florida are shutting the border to try and keep it out on the deer farming end, Ny has less than 100 active farms. We would be one of the first to go, You would think!
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 11:07 AM   #18
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep
Real simple Mike if they just come out and shut us down it is a takings and they will be liable. By doing it this way it just forces people out of the business and like any business without new customers the industry (business) dies on it's own. In Montana without the harvest facilities we just keep fading away. If they close down the boarder and the harvest facilities what reason is there to call this a business. If they take away movement and the harvest facilities then the breeder market fails also. Always remember they have time on their hands and the end justifies the means. They learned all this in Montana when they stopped the harvest facilities back in 2000. Those that have been in this situation can see the future outcome it's a shame all deer and elk producers can't get together on this to stop it. Typical thinking is it's not in my State so it won't hurt me. Guess again guys this industry is under attack and we have our heads in the sand.
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 12:25 PM   #19
 Wild Rivers Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Northeast Wisconsin

Cervid: Deer Farming
I think there is a lot of confusion as to what is being proposed. Most folks don't have the time or resources to sit down and read through all of the material. They need to rely on their paid representatives from NADeFA, NAEBA and EWA to do that for them. They then need to have a summarized version of what the various proposals are. These should go to the state organizations who can distribute it to their members, and to all NADeFA and NAEBA members and I guess EWA since they are involved too - along with any other organizations who have a stake in the outcome. You can't expect most people to take the time to understand and go through all of the various versions that have been posted here and elsewhere. It just isn't going to happen. That is why we pay lobbyists and NADeFA to represent us and then come back to us with the proposals summarized in a fashion everyone can understand. There are a lot of bits and pieces that get posted about this part or that part - but folks need a comprehensive summary of what in plain language is being proposed.
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 01:46 PM   #20
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Rivers Whitetails
I think there is a lot of confusion as to what is being proposed. Most folks don't have the time or resources to sit down and read through all of the material. They need to rely on their paid representatives from NADeFA, NAEBA and EWA to do that for them. They then need to have a summarized version of what the various proposals are. These should go to the state organizations who can distribute it to their members, and to all NADeFA and NAEBA members and I guess EWA since they are involved too - along with any other organizations who have a stake in the outcome. You can't expect most people to take the time to understand and go through all of the various versions that have been posted here and elsewhere. It just isn't going to happen. That is why we pay lobbyists and NADeFA to represent us and then come back to us with the proposals summarized in a fashion everyone can understand. There are a lot of bits and pieces that get posted about this part or that part - but folks need a comprehensive summary of what in plain language is being proposed.


I agree but you would think with people having skin in the game they would refresh themselves on the true facts.

Jack, I dont think it would matter to the states or anyone else when and if it comes down to shutting down the industry. Just like Ny put an emergency plan in place for 90 days without telling anyone. I believe in todays world if they really think our industry is that harmful and passing so called deadly bugs..They would pull the plug on all of us and not lose any sleep over it.
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 01:54 PM   #21
 Wild Rivers Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Northeast Wisconsin

Cervid: Deer Farming
I saw a "man on the street" deal on Fox a few weeks ago and half of the people out there don't have a clue. They were asked about the IRS scandal, Benghazi, the NSA snooping and half the people didn't have any idea. They are living in their own little bubble. I'm sure the same is true for our industry. A lot of people just are doing their thing and don't pay attention. At least something simple and direct outlining things from a credible source would help. Maybe NADeFA has to issue Alerts or something, just so it isn't overused. But I don't expect people to read through volumes to try and figure out what it all means - they aren't going to do it. That is when the rumor mill and half truths start and get blown out of proportion. People with a small amount of incorrect info make assumptions and judgments. Let's get people the facts from a credible source so they can make their own decisions about any actions to take.
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 02:23 PM   #22
 
  Apr 2009
  Fombell PA
Wild rivers you are exactly right.......everyone is NOT going to sit down and read line for line as to what is going down as far as the standards that are being forced upon our industry.......it is unrealistic to think everyone is going to do that.........NADefa should be sending out a watered down version to all of it's members and it has not happened to date.....what are paying them for......this is the most serious attack on our industry that I have ever seen since I have been involved in Deer Farming.........we need to be able to lean on the organizations that have been put into place for our protection.......I realize there has been a lot of work and hours going towards the fight.....but I don't feel our recources have been used in our best interest.....people just have no clue what's going on....and that's because they are uninformed! Maybe if someone would get the word out to the masses we just might have the support we need to fight this injustice!!
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 02:23 PM   #23
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Rivers Whitetails
I saw a "man on the street" deal on Fox a few weeks ago and half of the people out there don't have a clue. They were asked about the IRS scandal, Benghazi, the NSA snooping and half the people didn't have any idea. They are living in their own little bubble. I'm sure the same is true for our industry. A lot of people just are doing their thing and don't pay attention. At least something simple and direct outlining things from a credible source would help. Maybe NADeFA has to issue Alerts or something, just so it isn't overused. But I don't expect people to read through volumes to try and figure out what it all means - they aren't going to do it. That is when the rumor mill and half truths start and get blown out of proportion. People with a small amount of incorrect info make assumptions and judgments. Let's get people the facts from a credible source so they can make their own decisions about any actions to take.


Yes maybe from one source as to not confuse things. I think your right and i also believe the statement that was made by Laurie...When someone gets hit that sells animals all across the country, Then people will catch up!
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 02:42 PM   #24
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota
Guys, When Dr Bill Hartmann, our State Vet., who served on the working group to correct this, and someone I have personally known, worked with, and respected for over 20 years, tells me this a bad document, I guess I will listen to him. He told me, quote " this is designed to put us out of business", "these guidelines are impossible". Why aren't we listening? The only group supporting this is NADEFA leadership.

I have the current version if you want it sent to you, send me your email. Decide for yourself. This is version 21. Dated 6-6-13 I don't know how to download it on here.
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 03:09 PM   #25
 
  Nov 2012
  Garnett, Kansas
Gary, the PDF version of Version 21 is downloadable on the American Cervid Alliance news page as well the North American Elk Breeders Association's.
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 03:52 PM   #26
 
  Jan 2011
  Barnett Mo
Ok dont rem my ass to bad for this. I cant understand half the crap that is in the rules and regs and just as i start to figure it out they change crap My question is if this all goes before Congress why not rally together and take capital hill No offense to anyone but if Blacks,gays and other groups can do it we can to we need to stop relying on others and come together as a group of many to show those SOBs we mean business and that we are not going to take this crap anymore I for one cant afford to do all this testing crap and then when I find a pos. pay for my herd to be killed off I say when and not if because they will find a pos in every herd until they can shut state by state down enough is enough
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 05:13 PM   #27
 
  Apr 2009
  Fombell PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by daywoodwhitetails
Ok dont rem my ass to bad for this. I cant understand half the crap that is in the rules and regs and just as i start to figure it out they change crap My question is if this all goes before Congress why not rally together and take capital hill No offense to anyone but if Blacks,gays and other groups can do it we can to we need to stop relying on others and come together as a group of many to show those SOBs we mean business and that we are not going to take this crap anymore I for one cant afford to do all this testing crap and then when I find a pos. pay for my herd to be killed off I say when and not if because they will find a pos in every herd until they can shut state by state down enough is enough


Perfect Nick!! We all need that attitude.......come on big boys its no secret who you are on here .....you can showcase your bucks but you can't come on and support the very industry that keeps you a float.....the very people who made you what you are!!.......this is not meant for all of you.......i know many of you with big voices in this industry have been working hard behind the scenes......but if what I just said, ticked you off...then.....yes it was meant for

you!!! I am so tired of all the chest beating on here about who did this and who did that for

our Industry.....Guess what...it don't matter anymore!! We are were we are RiGHT NOW! I DONT CARE WHAT YOU DID!! I CARE ABOUT WHAT YOUR GOING TO DO NOW! I am willing to

strike a very large check IF I know it's going towards litigation to fight for our rights as deer

farmers......for some reason NADefa has made it known they do not support that direction!!

well then I question who they are fighting for!! And if I am wrong..,then it is their fault for

NOT INFORMING US....of What exactly is going on! I am tired of all this crap....I know I may

not be the most popular guy on these forums nor do I care......what I do care about is

everyone on here that likes to deer farm and do what they love in their hearts.......guys we are losing right now......and we are losing big time!! If you think we can't be put out of business your sadly mistaken!...it is happening at this very moment and we are letting it!.....if we don't step up NOW we have no one tp blame but ourselves!! I only have these forums to reach out.....I will make some calls to NADefa.......but my lonely call certianly won't make a difference...WE ALL NEED TOO! Lets show them an industry united.....and NADefa....wake up and help us be united by contacting all the masses and get the ball rolling! That's what we all pay you for!.....I thank you for what you have done to date....but you need to DO MORE! This I not just a single state at stake here....ITS THE WHOLE INDUSTRY!
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 07:04 PM   #28
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddwhitetails
Perfect Nick!! We all need that attitude.......come on big boys its no secret who you are on here .....you can showcase your bucks but you can't come on and support the very industry that keeps you a float.....the very people who made you what you are!!.......this is not meant for all of you.......i know many of you with big voices in this industry have been working hard behind the scenes......but if what I just said, ticked you off...then.....yes it was meant for

you!!! I am so tired of all the chest beating on here about who did this and who did that for

our Industry.....Guess what...it don't matter anymore!! We are were we are RiGHT NOW! I DONT CARE WHAT YOU DID!! I CARE ABOUT WHAT YOUR GOING TO DO NOW! I am willing to

strike a very large check IF I know it's going towards litigation to fight for our rights as deer

farmers......for some reason NADefa has made it known they do not support that direction!!

well then I question who they are fighting for!! And if I am wrong..,then it is their fault for

NOT INFORMING US....of What exactly is going on! I am tired of all this crap....I know I may

not be the most popular guy on these forums nor do I care......what I do care about is

everyone on here that likes to deer farm and do what they love in their hearts.......guys we are losing right now......and we are losing big time!! If you think we can't be put out of business your sadly mistaken!...it is happening at this very moment and we are letting it!.....if we don't step up NOW we have no one tp blame but ourselves!! I only have these forums to reach out.....I will make some calls to NADefa.......but my lonely call certianly won't make a difference...WE ALL NEED TOO! Lets show them an industry united.....and NADefa....wake up and help us be united by contacting all the masses and get the ball rolling! That's what we all pay you for!.....I thank you for what you have done to date....but you need to DO MORE! This I not just a single state at stake here....ITS THE WHOLE INDUSTRY!


You have to remember that NADEFA is not just some letters. I find it very hard to believe that guys like Shawn, Tim, Jim Moses and most the rest on that board are not doing whatever they feel is the best for us all in the long run! These people all have skin in this game and they all own millions in animals and property. Do you really think they are just going to drop the ball themselves and lose everything they have invested also. We pay them to do a job. Im sure they are doing it!
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 07:18 PM   #29
 
  Apr 2009
  Fombell PA
Yep.mike and that's why I said there are many doing LOTS.....to help us as an Industry.....but...I still think NADefa as a whole has dropped the ball....and I still think that....I am sorry but if they don't support a legal action on our behalf...that is bull crap!!...they exist because of us...we pay them to keep us in business.....I don't care anymore.....I love what I do.......I am sick and tired of all the bull crap......I write a check out to Nadefa and the Pa deer farmers every stinking year because I want them to fight for my rights to Deer Farm......Sorry......but I don't think their doing a very good job.....and guess what.....it's my right to say so...........get the word out to the masses.......again...this is what needs to be done....we are losing this battle and I am tired of hearing all the bull crap.....we need to put up or shut up...those that don't want to fight need to go out.....shoot your deer in the head ...bury them and move on!! Cause they will be worthless to anyone other than yourself very soon!......WAKE UP!!
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Old Jun 21st 2013, 08:04 PM   #30
 
  Nov 2012
  Medina Texas
Wild Rivers asked a question concerning EWA and NAEBA's position concerning the standards that the three National associations worked to change. I can tell you this, after 6 months of negotiating we accomplished very little in the big scheme of things. Regardless what some in this industry believe, most every bone pitched our way has been changed. I personally have worked with many government officials but never have I found anyone more difficult to work with than Dr. Patty Klein. Could not understand why until I read the post by Rhonda Braake concerning Klein's involvement with HSUS. Really does not surprise anyone because USDA has been infiltrated with HSUS former foot soldiers. Dr. Bill Hartman said it best back at the very beginning and that was the standards should have been scrapped. Several others felt the same way and we had an opportunity to do that but industry squandered that chance away. There were those that wanted to "let the process play itself out" and see what evolved from the Standards working group's effort. Well we did that and I can tell you this, as Dr. Hartman has said this is a document designed to put breeders out of business. But again what can we expect. It was authored by a HSUS and USFWS foot soldier. This document is going to public comment and the ACA will be sending out key talking points and also will be discussing these talking points on next weeks call. Industry's public comments need to be articulate and directed at those areas of the standards that are onerous and intrusive, which is most of the document. As I said in the beginning we had an opportunity and lost it. Now it's up to our industry whether we want to say enough is enough or keep following some off the proverbial cliff. The choice is really simple. Please let your ACA representative know how you want our industry to proceed.
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