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Old Jun 22nd 2013, 07:19 AM   #31
 
  Apr 2009
  TN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarg6207
Wild Rivers asked a question concerning EWA and NAEBA's position concerning the standards that the three National associations worked to change. I can tell you this, after 6 months of negotiating we accomplished very little in the big scheme of things. Regardless what some in this industry believe, most every bone pitched our way has been changed. I personally have worked with many government officials but never have I found anyone more difficult to work with than Dr. Patty Klein. Could not understand why until I read the post by Rhonda Braake concerning Klein's involvement with HSUS. Really does not surprise anyone because USDA has been infiltrated with HSUS former foot soldiers. Dr. Bill Hartman said it best back at the very beginning and that was the standards should have been scrapped. Several others felt the same way and we had an opportunity to do that but industry squandered that chance away. There were those that wanted to "let the process play itself out" and see what evolved from the Standards working group's effort. Well we did that and I can tell you this, as Dr. Hartman has said this is a document designed to put breeders out of business. But again what can we expect. It was authored by a HSUS and USFWS foot soldier. This document is going to public comment and the ACA will be sending out key talking points and also will be discussing these talking points on next weeks call. Industry's public comments need to be articulate and directed at those areas of the standards that are onerous and intrusive, which is most of the document. As I said in the beginning we had an opportunity and lost it. Now it's up to our industry whether we want to say enough is enough or keep following some off the proverbial cliff. The choice is really simple. Please let your ACA representative know how you want our industry to proceed.


Charly,



Two Questions



Having been in the hospital most of the past eight months, I probably have missed some of what has transpired from the efforts of ACA. Based on your statement above, it appears that ACA has accomplished at least a little. To date, what has been accomplished by ACA?



If ACA is going to be the new coalition, maybe it's time for ACA to regroup and see how the industry can somehow pull together. Based on some other post on this forum, many industry members feel they were not kept informed of what the industry leaders were doing and that the issues were not explained well enough.



Moving forward, how can ACA and other groups to a better job protecting and promoting this industry?
Autry is offline  
Old Jun 22nd 2013, 09:26 AM   #32
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota
David,

The most important thing I can say about the ACA is that it has brought the Elk, Exotic, and Deer industries together and are talking. No one, or group should feel threatened by the ACA. It is not trying to steal members from anyone. Isn't talking, and sharing information amongst the industries good? Shouldn't we ALL, as our various industries, pull together?

Gary
G O Whitetails is offline  
Old Jun 22nd 2013, 09:39 AM   #33
 Wild Rivers Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Northeast Wisconsin

Cervid: Deer Farming
Well I guess I thought NADEFA represented not just deer farmers, but elk, red deer, sika, and fallow. There are people, or at least were, that raised all of these species on the board. In fact, back 10-12 years ago, NADEFA was PRIMARILY these other species and Whitetails were the minority. I remember when Dave Griffith got on the board and he was the first whitetail person on the board!! So I do believe they represent all of the above and I do believe that is why there is confusion as to another group that represents the same people, what the difference is and why it is necessary.



Folks are getting different messages from different groups and don't know which is credible and what is fact. It goes back to people are not going to take the time to read through all of the proposed regs and standards and need help. They need one reliable source of factual information presented in a format tht is easy to read and understand.
Wild Rivers Whitetails is offline  
Old Jun 22nd 2013, 10:12 AM   #34
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota
I was at the NADEFA conference this spring. I saw very LITTLE influence of other species. If I was an outsider walking around the hall, I would have thought it was a deer association show. The literature we handed out in Washington, said there are 20,000 cervid farmers in the U.S. The last directory from NADEFA I got this winter, shows 1368 members in the U.S. That's 6.8% of the farmers. Where do these other 93% belong?

Again, the purpose of the ACA is to bring everyone together to have industry speak with ONE voice.
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Old Jun 22nd 2013, 10:20 AM   #35
 
  Apr 2009
  Poplar Bluff, Missouri
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Rivers Whitetails
Well I guess I thought NADEFA represented not just deer farmers, but elk, red deer, sika, and fallow. There are people, or at least were, that raised all of these species on the board. In fact, back 10-12 years ago, NADEFA was PRIMARILY these other species and Whitetails were the minority. I remember when Dave Griffith got on the board and he was the first whitetail person on the board!! So I do believe they represent all of the above and I do believe that is why there is confusion as to another group that represents the same people, what the difference is and why it is necessary.



Folks are getting different messages from different groups and don't know which is credible and what is fact. It goes back to people are not going to take the time to read through all of the proposed regs and standards and need help. They need one reliable source of factual information presented in a format tht is easy to read and understand.


What if the one source isn't reliable? What if the industry gets lead down the path that one or a few THINK is the right direction? What if they make decisions based on how it personally effects or doesn't effect them? What happens when the organization that represents US no longer listens to the people it serves? What happens when you can no longer elect members that represent your best interest? Those people that are nominated are pre screened and sorted through before they reach the ballot, based on personal preference by the active board . The questions i have talked about sound alot like the OBAMA administration! A dictatorship that will eventually lead to the END! This is America and we can still choose who to follow and who represents us. If at any point we think that we are not being represented by a person, organization or group we have the freedom and power to change that. That is what the democratic process is set up for. We should be able to elect our leaders, and make sure that process isn't flawed!



sincerely,

joe deerfarmer
kurthumphrey is offline  
Old Jun 22nd 2013, 10:40 AM   #36
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurthumphrey
What if the one source isn't reliable? What if the industry gets lead down the path that one or a few THINK is the right direction? What if they make decisions based on how it personally effects or doesn't effect them? What happens when the organization that represents US no longer listens to the people it serves? What happens when you can no longer elect members that represent your best interest? Those people that are nominated are pre screened and sorted through before they reach the ballot, based on personal preference by the active board . The questions i have talked about sound alot like the OBAMA administration! A dictatorship that will eventually lead to the END! This is America and we can still choose who to follow and who represents us. If at any point we think that we are not being represented by a person, organization or group we have the freedom and power to change that. That is what the democratic process is set up for. We should be able to elect our leaders, and make sure that process isn't flawed!



sincerely,

joe deerfarmer


Yeah thats a good one. Im sure the board members that have twice as much money and animals than most of who they represent are going to do something that willlead to an end of THEMSELVES! Some like the think these people have nothing vested in their own decisions!





Again, the purpose of the ACA is to bring everyone together to have industry speak with ONE voice.(Quote)



I believe that would make what 2,3,4 different voices we were hearing things from! Most thought NADEFA was the voice!
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Old Jun 22nd 2013, 11:23 AM   #37
 
  Apr 2009
  TN
Quote:
Originally Posted by G O Whitetails
David,

The most important thing I can say about the ACA is that it has brought the Elk, Exotic, and Deer industries together and are talking. No one, or group should feel threatened by the ACA. It is not trying to steal members from anyone. Isn't talking, and sharing information amongst the industries good? Shouldn't we ALL, as our various industries, pull together?

Gary


Gary,



I agree. ACA has brought some people together to talk and no group should feel threatened from that especially when one of the main promoters of ACA admits ACA has accomplished very little but maybe this is a start. Maybe, in the future, ACA will be able to do something that will benefit all involved in this industry regardless of what species we raise.
Autry is offline  
Old Jun 22nd 2013, 11:29 AM   #38
 Wild Rivers Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Northeast Wisconsin

Cervid: Deer Farming
G O Whitetails - yes NADEFA has been overtaken by the whitetail industry versus the others. There are simply more whitetail producers and it is where the money is vs. the others. Why more people aren't members is anyone's guess. That was always an issue and always will be. At one point in time there was a lot of talk about the "big farmers" vs the "little guys", and the big guys running the show. That is probably true, but it is also true that the big guys who make their living deer farming are the ones that will fight the hardest to preserve it. Regardless of size everyone is passionate about their deer, BUT if it means your livelihood, that adds another layer of urgency to do things right to preserve it. Losing your hobby or pastime is one thing, losing the way you earn a living is another. We earn our living raising and hunting deer. We employ 3 full time people that rely on us for their livelihood. We have several suppliers who probably wouldn't be around if we weren't buying what we do from them. It is the same for any other deerfarmer who earns their living this way and like others said, those are the people that will fight the hardest for you.
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Old Jun 22nd 2013, 11:36 AM   #39
 
  Apr 2009
  TN
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurthumphrey
What if the one source isn't reliable? What if the industry gets lead down the path that one or a few THINK is the right direction? What if they make decisions based on how it personally effects or doesn't effect them? What happens when the organization that represents US no longer listens to the people it serves? What happens when you can no longer elect members that represent your best interest? Those people that are nominated are pre screened and sorted through before they reach the ballot, based on personal preference by the active board . The questions i have talked about sound alot like the OBAMA administration! A dictatorship that will eventually lead to the END! This is America and we can still choose who to follow and who represents us. If at any point we think that we are not being represented by a person, organization or group we have the freedom and power to change that. That is what the democratic process is set up for. We should be able to elect our leaders, and make sure that process isn't flawed!



sincerely,

joe deerfarmer


NAEBA did exactly what you described above. They changed the bylaws whereas the President now appoints a Committee to seek out candidates of the President and the Board's choice in an attempt to control who comes onto the Board.
Autry is offline  
Old Jun 22nd 2013, 12:17 PM   #40
 
  May 2009
Every time I come here I just get PO'd. Guys that I consider friends saying things that seem to be repeating what they are told or heard. I am no longer on the NADeFA board and I got off for a couple of reasons. One was I was sick of working my butt off to keep deer farmers in business only to be attacked by those very people. I have read and re-read these standards and I do agree the optional language has got to be changed but other than being very repetitious and using some language I take offense to, I am not seeing the part that is putting us out of business. I never wanted a federal rule and still don't but it is not putting anyone out of business. Would I change it if I could? Yes I would but I would pre-empt the states and make it legal to deer farm in every state and every border would be open, even Alabama. Ha. Anyone that believes this document was written to put us out of business either has an agenda or is seeing something I can't see. The attacks on NADeFA are not only unwarranted but not logical. I am a deer farmer, that's what I do, its how I make my living. Not many can say that and almost none that I know done it the way I did. I borrowed every penny to buy my deer, property and every thing that it took to run this place. I will be paid out in a couple of years and it has been a tough road. I have been decimated by being the epicenter of one of the worst ice storms in US history, a tornado that went directly through my breed pens, lost a great herd of does that I purchased when the ice storm forced a late delivery, got destroyed by EHD and lost all of the shooter bucks I purchased to ticks in my hunting area. That was 2001. I am not a big dog but a broke dog. I have found every way to lose yet I have survived. I may be broke forever but consider myself one of the lucky few. I love what I do and the people I know. I have been accused of things and lied about in emails that people have sent me. Most of the people I see here bitchin I never see working or donating. I see my friends attacked only for working for the industry for no pay. I guess we were all just stupid and are trying to close down the deer industry and put ourselves out of business and lose everything we worked for. I have a truckload more to say but I have to walk ten acres of pens checking my fawns.
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Old Jun 22nd 2013, 12:28 PM   #41
 
  May 2009
I also meant to thank Four Seasons Whitetails, Wild Rivers Whitetails, David for sounding logical and Travis for a reasonable approach and our lengthy phone calls. I am sure I missed someone but most of the rest seems misinformed or have something else they are working on. So most of you don't need to post about your lack of agendas' and all because I think I am pretty settled in my opinions on that at this point.
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Old Jun 22nd 2013, 09:43 PM   #42
 
  Nov 2012
  Garnett, Kansas
As a member of the ACA i will not give a detail list of the ACA's accomplishments in response to David's question because it won't make any difference because when he asked that question back in February we answered it and then he said the ACA was "beating its chest" by listing what its accomplished so I personally will opt out of those questions.



The ACA is 29 ACTIVE associations strong and working together. Period. I suggest any controversy be better spent on how to deal with the 56 new pages of federal regulations pushed on the industry by the federal standards.



Respectfully always,



Travis
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Old Jun 23rd 2013, 04:53 AM   #43
 
  Aug 2009
  Wisconsin
Well said Travis. I have stated numerous times what this document can and will do to anyone who is involved in a CWD positive, trace back, or trace forward. If you can afford to be quarantined for 5 years without any guarantee of movement or indemnification, then by all means, they aren't that bad...end of story. I for one cannot afford to be quantined for 6 months without one or the other so I guess that's why I continue to state the federal rules and standards are designed to eventually put us out of business because there will be more cases like the one in Iowa.



The government agencies, HSUS, QDMA, etc. are using CWD as an excuse to do away with our industry one state at a time. Just look at the border closing issues in NY, Louisiana and Florida....how many more states are going to follow down that path?
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Old Jun 23rd 2013, 05:28 AM   #44
 
  Nov 2012
  Medina Texas
Three additional SUGGESTiONS that have been added into these standards is embryos and semen as possible transmission routes although there is no scientific evidence to back this claim up...fencing suggestions have also been added to include 10 foot fences to guarantee 100 percent prevention of ingress or egress....Dr Clifford was also very specific that the standards were optional and not required of the states. The working group had that language in the introduction to Part A and Part B. it is now left out of Part B which is the most restrictive part of the document. Folks these are suggestions only and you may very well have a great industry friendly state vet or DNR but those officials change frequently as do their philosophies. Some states are taking these standards as the gospel regardless. These are only some of the examples. That is why we are saying this document, optional or not, goes and makes suggestions way above the rule. The rule definitely needs some serious work but the standards are terrible and apparently there are a lot of folks who feel the same way.
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Old Jun 23rd 2013, 06:26 AM   #45
 
  Apr 2009
  TN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis
As a member of the ACA i will not give a detail list of the ACA's accomplishments in response to David's question because it won't make any difference because when he asked that question back in February we answered it and then he said the ACA was "beating its chest" by listing what its accomplished so I personally will opt out of those questions.



The ACA is 29 ACTIVE associations strong and working together. Period. I suggest any controversy be better spent on how to deal with the 56 new pages of federal regulations pushed on the industry by the federal standards.



Respectfully always,



Travis


Travis,



With all due respect, if ACA is going to be the new coalition, I believe that ACA will need to be more transparent to the industry with what it is doing. That has been one of the complaints against ACA, that industry members have not been kept informed and that the issues have not been explained well enough.



It's easy to point out all that's wrong with the industry but unless ACA is actually accomplishing something, it is just talk. Charly has already stated that ACA has accomplished very little and I was hoping that meant some small something had been accomplished and was curious what that was.



In the past when I criticized ACA, it was because they were making statements that were untrue and claiming they had more support than they actually had. I posted information that proved that. Now let's move on. The industry does not need two coalitions so if ACA is going to be the new coalition, ACA needs to be upfront and honest about what they are doing and let the industry know how they will help solve the problems we are faced with.
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