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Old Aug 13th 2014, 01:11 PM   #1
 
  Jun 2012
  Blountsville, Al


This topic is directed towards farmers in Alabama but anyone with input is welcome to reply. Recently, I have noticed something that has raised an alarm with me. I may have been*drawn the wrong conclusion*and my narrow mind may not be processing it the right way (whatever way that is).*Since it seems that there has been a steady increase in deer farmers in the state of Alabama, everyone now has good does. And, it appears to me that now everyone has good does for sale.* My concern is not for shooters, at this time, but does. If you spend the money on*DNA and profile your deer but can't sell them because*everyone has them.......... do you see where im going with this?*My fear is that the market will flood with does.*I've only been in it for three*years*now and have yet to sell*one shooter because they are not of age. And, it appears that the deer business has changed since I've been in it. Compared to actual deer farmers who sell deer to hunt, the state does not have*that many preserves. I would just like someone's input on where they think Alabama is going with deer farming and is there*still hope for a small farmer who would like to sell a doe at a reasonable price.*As you all know, its not cheap to get into this business and its even more expensive to grow and maintain. I would just hate to spend my savings, as I have, on this and catch it on the tail end where there is no money left to recoup. Open boarders would be nice..........*
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Old Aug 13th 2014, 01:17 PM   #2
 
  Jan 2014
  Pipe Creek ,Texas


yes it is hard to make all your money back on one deer takes a long time to me prices are a little high right now for this great economy we got just my 2 cents worth hope you have good luck T&S
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Old Aug 13th 2014, 01:42 PM   #3
 
  Jan 2013
  NJ, deer are kept in PA
Most people ( bigger breeders) have their does and only buy top quality does to add to their herd from top quality breeders.. Smaller guys (like myself). Buy what they can afford. I can buy bottle fed fawn does right now for less than $300 from a local fellow that grows monsters every year. So I guess if you can afford the big money does, someone will buy your offspring eventually. Bloodlines come and go like the weather. Wait a couple years maybe your lines will be the next in demand!
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Old Aug 13th 2014, 01:44 PM   #4
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
It matters where you buy and what you buy. Much of the auction scene and marketing hype revolves around the idea "get smart people on your side then trick the dummy". I don't see where " love your neighbor( fellow deer farmer) as yourself" or God bless you, fits into that kind of business but it is a smart method to make money. Thunderstorm has been around for over 12 years and his daughters have always brought and still bring several times the price of a straw of his semen if they are sold in almost any auction. His sons are some of the most sought after in our preserves. I have went out of my way to find out who the people in this industry are who have facilitated getting the boarders closed in Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, Texas, and New York. I will not do any business with them period or their associates.
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Old Aug 13th 2014, 05:48 PM   #5
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
Jeremy


You are learning the same lesson many of us learned. You buy from the supposed high end deer breeders and when you get ready to sale your does they are cheap does. Shooters are easy to sale but the price has to be reasonable. I am buying shooters now and will pay half the shooter price. The bad thing is many people think because they bought their does for a fortune that they can get high prices for their shooters. Some people wanted more for the shooters than the hunt price and seemed to be mad that I would not buy them.

I have bred does with $400 to $5,000 dollar semen with the same results when the offspring was 2 or 3 years old. Breeding with hype does not make better shooters. Not one hunter will ask how much you pay for the doe or the semen. When choosing semen look at the deer and not the hype. It is a lesson I learned the hard way.

95% of us are raising shooters. One lesson that seems to be hard for people to learn is to buy your does from someone that will buy your shooters! I will buy every shooter the people have if they bought their does from me. The price is set, half the shooter price.
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Old Aug 13th 2014, 06:14 PM   #6
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
First thing is buy smart from the get go..don't get caught up in the glitz and glamor of some big farms. Almost everyone of them made their money elsewhere. They spend it in the deer biz as a hobby. So don't think they got rich off of deer. As long as you don't overpay in the beginning you can be even and make money by year 3 tops. .
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 01:57 AM   #7
 
  May 2009
  Forest Home, AL
mulberry river whitetails960641407964283

This topic is directed towards farmers in Alabama but anyone with input is welcome to reply. Recently, I have noticed something that has raised an alarm with me. I may have been*drawn the wrong conclusion*and my narrow mind may not be processing it the right way (whatever way that is).*Since it seems that there has been a steady increase in deer farmers in the state of Alabama, everyone now has good does. And, it appears to me that now everyone has good does for sale.* My concern is not for shooters, at this time, but does. If you spend the money on*DNA and profile your deer but can't sell them because*everyone has them.......... do you see where im going with this?*My fear is that the market will flood with does.*I've only been in it for three*years*now and have yet to sell*one shooter because they are not of age. And, it appears that the deer business has changed since I've been in it. Compared to actual deer farmers who sell deer to hunt, the state does not have*that many preserves. I would just like someone's input on where they think Alabama is going with deer farming and is there*still hope for a small farmer who would like to sell a doe at a reasonable price.*As you all know, its not cheap to get into this business and its even more expensive to grow and maintain. I would just hate to spend my savings, as I have, on this and catch it on the tail end where there is no money left to recoup. Open boarders would be nice..........



Jerremy

There are a lot of does on the market right now. What you have to concentrate on now is proving production. The days of sticking a good straw in a doe and getting good money for her are about over. Don't just put together a good pedigree. You have to show what a doe or doe line can produce. That takes time and of course money. I'm not saying you have, but some put together a business plan that relied on getting the same money for a " breeder market doe" as what they payed for it. That does not happen! They are an investment and if breed right will make you money down the road. If I'm looking to pay top dollar for a particular line I go to the sorce. If I want a deal. I look for those bloodlines on other farms. You have to work on growing the biggest deer and for the least amount of money. Don't breed with what everyone else is. Don't go cheap but don't brake the bank on semen either. Find your best producing does and build your heard off of them. Every year cut the does out that aren't hitting your goals. You have to raise the bar every year. I'm working toward consistently producing 200+ at 2 yr old. If you show production to your potential clients and you are priced competively you will be able t sell your does. I'm sure there are plenty of things I missed and will think of after more coffee. Good luck and if I can ever help please call. 334-346-2255.
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 05:47 AM   #8
 
  Jun 2012
  Blountsville, Al


Troy, I pretty much get what you are saying. Please digress on what you mean by cutting out the ones that don't make my goal. That is the question that I am asking. How are you cutting them out? I have two*"foundation does" that I bought when I first started. No DNA....... didn't know that I needed any*because of my ignorance of the business. They were bred with good semen and took to AI. I*now have a lot of off-spring out of them from AI. I know that the deer aren't worth what I paid for them three*years ago.*I would sell the does for less than half of what I have in them*just to*get*SOME money out of them to diversify my bloodlines. Nobody seems interested. So I guess my question is this: How am I going to cut them out without putting them down? That is not an option for me. I see my deer as God's creatures and just money. If that is not a smart business plan then I guess im not a good business person.


*


Here is the only buck that I have had out of my foundation does. Looks great to me but I don't want to continue to grow my farm based on two does. By the way he is a yearling*out of BASS.*
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 09:04 AM   #9
 
  May 2009
  Forest Home, AL
I would never advocate putting an animal down that wasn't terminally sick. They all have value! I don't rate my does on how big there yearling are. I always have some nice two year olds that were nothing special yearlings. If you have the chance call me this evening. I have some questions for you maybe, and maybe I can help you get some deer sold.
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 10:49 AM   #10
 
  Jan 2014
  Pipe Creek ,Texas


yes I just bought two does with dna to start and a button buck witch is my avatar at 3 he was 165 &7/8 got a yearling that looks like him but took three years to get that
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 01:52 PM   #11
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
You can make money on shooters. To do that you need to breed your does up to have shooters at 2 to 3 years old. It does not take high dollar semen to do that. There is a huge number of deer out there with semen prices less than $1,000 that will do that. They are not highly advertised so you have to look for them.

The part I don't understand is that most people think they have to raise a 200 inch two year old but most hunters want a 140 to 160 in Alabama. I can shoot those easily but very few 200 inch. Maybe if the economy ever gets better, the high end hunts will pick up. Many of the people that call wanting to sale shooters say they don't have deer that small.

That leads to an oversupply of the high end deer in Alabama for shooters. Over the next couple of years, I believe, the price of a 200 inch shooter will be the same price as a 160 is today.
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 02:37 PM   #12
 
  May 2009
  Forest Home, AL
The hunting prices in Alabama will come down in the future, because we will have to be more competitive with hunting operations up north. I have to breed today for what I think the hunting market will be two to three years from now. If I can consistently produce close to 200 inch at two through live breeding than I figure I will still be able to make a living doing what I love.
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 04:50 PM   #13
 
  Jan 2013
  NJ, deer are kept in PA
Good post the huntclub, I agree with your line of thinking.
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 05:33 PM   #14
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
thuntclub961091408055877


The hunting prices in Alabama will come down in the future, because we will have to be more competitive with hunting operations up north. I have to breed today for what I think the hunting market will be two to three years from now. If I can consistently produce close to 200 inch at two through live breeding than I figure I will still be able to make a living doing what I love.

I agree completely. The 200 inch deer will shoot for $7,500 tops within the next 3 to 5 years. If I can raise them consistently at 2 to 3 years of age. I will be fine. At least I can be doing what I want and not be sitting behind a desk.
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Old Aug 14th 2014, 06:44 PM   #15
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer


Sorry to inject northern thoughts here.


I have to say thuntclub is giving great advice. A dedicated culling program is super important. As your herd quality rises the culling becomes very difficult but it needs to be done to keep raising the bar. I understand we didn't get into the business to put animals down, however at some point that might be the only option. Not because we aren't getting as much as we want for the extra does, but because there simply aren't any buyers. And that is despite the strong proven production of the does your looking to move out. Cull does is not even the proper term anymore for many of the does a farm is looking to move because they are simply such great producers. However we can't keep building more pens and over population on the farm doesn't do the herd any good either.


As deerchaser said there is money to be made in stockers also. However overhead costs must be kept as low as possible. If you don't have a live breeder and semen is your best option then don't over pay for the straws. If your looking to buy does or semen look for production first and second look to do business with someone who will do business back with you. I am selling out of my hunt ranch but was contacted out of the blue by someone looking to sell stockers. They named off all these people they bought their stock from and now wanted me to buy their bucks. If I was looking for bucks to buy I would contact those who bought from me first.


I hate that some folks have put all their savings into deer and may never recoup those monies. It all goes back to the advice I was given a long long time ago. Never spend more than you can afford to lose. I always remembered that and tried to pass that along to others as well.


Good luck to you guys.
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