Deer Farmer

Go Back   Deer Farmer > Deer Farming Forum > Cervid Industry

Cervid Industry Cervid Industry Forum - share, discuss, and debate important issues and matters within the cervid industry


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old Jan 14th 2014, 08:55 PM   #1
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN


The ACA meeting tonight was one that I wish everyone in this industry could have listened in on.* There are a bunch of great people spending their time trying understand and digest this document so they can help decide as "one"* what is best for our industry.* I wish that my own state organization would weigh in on this issue but they have continued to be absent on the calls.* There may never be anything more important than this document that faces us as an industry. *


*


One thing that Laurie said really hit home tonight and that was she had someone tell her that if we accept the Federal Rule/Standards as it stands* it says that CWD* "IS" an issue or a real "PROBLEM" in our industry.** Is this what we believe? * Of all the discussion this may have been for me the line in the sand of where (I believe) we should stand.*


*


I know Shawn says that we asked for this Federal Rule.* That does not mean we have to accept it.


Alot has changed in the YEARS that have passed that it took the government to come up with this rule.


Just because we asked for it YEARS ago does not mean it is good for us NOW and we should not accept it just because we feel "obligated" to it. Years ago when the Rule was asked for CWD* was the big white elephant in the room.* Does anyone in this industry believe that now?


*


Thank you for those that founded the ACA, you are truely listening to this industry's problems and letting the industry make a decision.
jerrilee cave is offline  
Old Jan 14th 2014, 09:13 PM   #2
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer


Yes great meeting but also some red flags were throw up by some very smart people. The blood test research only being done on animals that were infected to cwd by people. The two different routes could make a huge different with the outcome. All the false negitives and false positives? *Then What!


*


When he says be careful what you ask for he has Ny's outcome on his mind. You throw out all these rules and standards and then states can make their own rules and like happened to us. They Will. *Also many states will not accept animals from states that do not test up to that states standards. *Many things still in the grey area and like someone said tonight. *There is no direction to take that will be good for every state. But any new direction cant hurt at this point!
Four Seasons Whitetails is offline  
Old Jan 14th 2014, 09:43 PM   #3
 
  Aug 2009
  Wisconsin


Angie,


The research thus far has been on experimentally infected animals and that is why CSU is very interested in samples from naturally infected animals. *It is going to take money to collect those samples and continue the research. *We have had a lot of positive comments about this particular blood test, but are proceeding with caution. *When Dr. Davis said to proceed with caution he was referring to research and a live test, not the CWD rule. I have spoken with Dr. Davis in great detail and he is not in favor of keeping the federal rule. *He supports putting the regulations back in the hands of the producers and the state agencies. *


*


Shawn is correct in saying the industry asked for this rule, but when we requested it we were in support of a unified rule that would hold all states to the same standards. *That didn't happen...the states did not want the federal government to tell them what to do so they petitioned USDA to pull the 2006 version of the rule. *Now we as an industry are faced with a rule that allows states to do what they want but still forces states to abide by the federal rule. *Without the federal rule, the Flees' breeding *farm would probably not be quarantined. *The federal rule forced the state of Wisconsin to quarantine their farm for a period of 5 years, giving them credit for the 3 years since the animal left the farm. *Don't let folks fool you that this rule helps to keep us in commerce...it does nothing but prevent states from using common sense to regulate this disease.


Laurie
Laurie Seale is offline  
Old Jan 14th 2014, 10:15 PM   #4
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer


Yes i heard what Dr said and he made great points. You had better know how your state and state vet is going to handle a false neg, false positive or a true positve for that matter. You leave it all in the states hands and who knows what some will do. They could still talk double fence and 5 years. *The words he said.. Be careful what you ask for.. *Makes one think.
Four Seasons Whitetails is offline  
Old Jan 14th 2014, 10:42 PM   #5
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN


the live test that is being pursued is one that uses a monoclonal antibody to detect the PRION itself in the blood.* This is not a blood test that determines the patients antibodies in response to infection of a prion.*


*


MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY DEFINITION


Given almost any substance, it is possible to produce monoclonal antibodies that specifically bind to that substance; they can then serve to detect or purify that substance. This has become an important tool in biochemistry, molecular biology and medicine. When used as medications, the non-proprietary drug name ends in -mab (see "Nomenclature of monoclonal antibodies").*


*


"The blood test research only being done on animals that were infected to cwd by people. The two different routes could make a huge different with the outcome."


*


Angie,


a prion in the blood is a prion in the blood irregardless of how it got there.* Now, the ability of infecting an animal is something totally different and really not a concern of the* live test ability to detect prions in the blood and its* sensitivity* or* false +/- 's. To determine how quickly prions can be detected after exposure, it* could possibly be accelerated by the dose used to infect, thecondition of the animal, and natural vs experimental infection.* I would think that environmnental exposure would take longer to see in the blood but research will tell the story.* This information will be needed to determine how often a herd would need to be tested if they have a +.* The initial research has shown the quaking test has* 80 % detection of prions and 100% specificity.
jerrilee cave is offline  
Old Jan 14th 2014, 11:05 PM   #6
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
jerrilee cave897961389768144



the live test that is being pursued is one that uses a monoclonal antibody to detect the PRION itself in the blood.* This is not a blood test that determines the patients antibodies in response to infection of a prion.*


*


MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY DEFINITION


Given almost any substance, it is possible to produce monoclonal antibodies that specifically bind to that substance; they can then serve to detect or purify that substance. This has become an important tool in biochemistry, molecular biology and medicine. When used as medications, the non-proprietary drug name ends in -mab (see "Nomenclature of monoclonal antibodies").*


*


"The blood test research only being done on animals that were infected to cwd by people. The two different routes could make a huge different with the outcome."


*


Angie,


a prion in the blood is a prion in the blood irregardless of how it got there.* Now, the ability of infecting an animal is something totally different and really not a concern of the* live test ability to detect prions in the blood and its* sensitivity* or* false +/- 's. To determine how quickly prions can be detected after exposure, it* could possibly be accelerated by the dose used to infect, thecondition of the animal, and natural vs experimental infection.* I would think that environmnental exposure would take longer to see in the blood but research will tell the story.* This information will be needed to determine how often a herd would need to be tested if they have a +.* The initial research has shown the quaking test has* 80 % detection of prions and 100% specificity.




Right..Meaning, Like he said, False test could be very easy in the negitive or the positive. He made it very clear when he said you better know where your vet stands on these. *Sky's the limit with states vet's. either way its something that needs to go forward. We need something! Just hope the true supporters are there when needed.
Four Seasons Whitetails is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2014, 07:55 AM   #7
 
  Apr 2009
  TN


A lot of good comments here and I'm glad careful thought is being given to each one.


*


Yes we did ask for a federal rule but we expected something reasonable, not something that would create more hardships. When ACA promised they could keep the wildlife agencies out of this final rulemaking process, there was hope but when ACA could not deliver their promise, there was no real hope*for a*reasonable outcome for this federal rule. I don't think we have any other reasonable*choice but to reject the rule.
Autry is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2014, 12:41 PM   #8
 
  Feb 2011
  Pierre SD


Pretty simple, If there is supposedly no issue with the wording and mentioning of double fencing then why won't Patty Kline throw it out? If we*are*dumb enough to*trust someone who has worked for the HSUS*at a top level to put together*rules and standards*that would be good for our industry then*we should be put out of business.**I also believe that if we as an industry are the ones who want this standard and rule then why would we go ahead with something we are not happy with hoping they will take the things we don't agree with later??*If someone actually believes this standard will get more lenient and throw out the parts we don't agree with*once the govt adopts it is insane. This "disease" is nothing but political and as they were*saying, us*pushing for a*standard is just keeping the issue that really isn't an issue*alive.*I'd bet more deer die in my county every year from EHD then do in the whole country over the last 6 years from CWD. If they are so*concerned*about the deer population, then why is every state on this kick trying to kill as many does as possible?*It's simply the wildlife people trying to eliminate there competition and the HSUS trying to put us out of business.


*


Cody
sdbigbucks is offline  
Old Jan 15th 2014, 02:50 PM   #9
 Whitetail Sanctuary's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Chillicothe, Missouri
sdbigbucks898071389818501



Pretty simple, If there is supposedly no issue with the wording and mentioning of double fencing then why won't Patty Kline throw it out? If we*are*dumb enough to*trust someone who has worked for the HSUS*at a top level to put together*rules and standards*that would be good for our industry then*we should be put out of business.**I also believe that if we as an industry are the ones who want this standard and rule then why would we go ahead with something we are not happy with hoping they will take the things we don't agree with later??*If someone actually believes this standard will get more lenient and throw out the parts we don't agree with*once the govt adopts it is insane. This "disease" is nothing but political and as they were*saying, us*pushing for a*standard is just keeping the issue that really isn't an issue*alive.*I'd bet more deer die in my county every year from EHD then do in the whole country over the last 6 years from CWD. If they are so*concerned*about the deer population, then why is every state on this kick trying to kill as many does as possible?*It's simply the wildlife people trying to eliminate there competition and the HSUS trying to put us out of business.


*


Cody




*


*


AMEN Cody!
Whitetail Sanctuary is offline  
Old Jan 16th 2014, 12:16 PM   #10
 
  Feb 2011
  Pierre SD


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...REATEN-HUNTING


*


This pretty much sums it up people!!! If the link doesn't work, copy and paste it into google and it should pop up.


*


Cody
sdbigbucks is offline  
Old Jan 16th 2014, 12:39 PM   #11
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota


Excellant article, Cody. *Thanks for posting.


*


Gary
G O Whitetails is offline  
Old Jan 16th 2014, 01:17 PM   #12
 
  Feb 2011
  Pierre SD


Look at all the thousands of harvested animals that cross state lines every day during hunting season in the back end of a pick up truck, THOUSANDS COMING OUT OF WHAT ARE CONSIDERED "ENDEMIC" AREAS! This "disease"* has*ABSOLUTELY NO*real effects on deer or elk*populations at all*compared to the over harvest of antlerless does and cows by greedy DNR departments. They are watching "there" numbers and quality crash and are to dumb to be able to figure out just why that is. Most under informed people just listen to what these DNR and QDMA orgs.*keep preaching and don't really look around and see what is going on in the areas they hunt. Our public ground that used to have good deer numbers*are completely wiped out with the over harvest of "antlerless" deer.*Our DNR sells a $20 doe license and then pays the processor $70*if the hunter donates it to the*"hungry". I guess I look at that as getting*rid of a productive doe and*loosing $50*per deer to boot! Ah, but it looks good to the public to give to the needy and gives the Wildlife Federation cry babies something to shoot*in hopes they will quit whining about not having any free places to hunt because everything has supposedly gone commercial*these days. I have news for these Federation*idiots, when a farmer tells you he leased his place out and you can't hunt there anymore, it's because you probably pissed him off when*you brought out 10 buddies instead of just yourself and it's his "nice" way of telling you to get lost. All these people are supposedly against high fence hunting yet 3,627 people applied for*ONE elk tag in Custer State Park, which is high fenced. If you offered a free hunt to these same people, they all do it.
sdbigbucks is offline  
Old Jan 16th 2014, 01:51 PM   #13
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota


Cody,


*Type this into you tube. *


In Minnesota some deer hunters are trying to get a petition to INCREASE the state deer herd. *They say there isn't enough deer to shoot. *They say they weren't large enough "stakeholders" at the table, and the farmers, insurance companies, and forestry people got to much say in deer numbers. * DAH !!! *These hunters are not stakeholders, but pan handlers!!!! *They don't have a pony in the race. *They buy a $30 tag and thinks that pays the cost of a deer. *We as deer farmers know what a deer eats in a year.


*



G O Whitetails is offline  
Old Jan 16th 2014, 02:03 PM   #14
 
  Feb 2011
  Pierre SD


You are exactly right, I always ask these wildlife federation people who have 2 full time lobbyists during our legislature, what have they EVER brought to the table other then they are a resident of this state! It's amazing to me how many of these law-makers actually listen to them, it must have something to do with the fact that they sit right with our DNR guys at every meeting. They also never bring anything to the table!
sdbigbucks is offline  
Old Jan 16th 2014, 02:17 PM   #15
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota


They want a larger "entitlement". *How can it be called anything else. *You may as well call the wild deer herd, "Obama Deer". *


They don't know the what the "true cost" of the states deer herd really is. *


They say that their deer hunting is a "right", and I have seen them say that us raising deer is a "privilege". *Don't they have it turned around?


They say WE threaten the "greater good", which is the same as the "good of the all". * Do you know what that is the definition of? * Look under Wikipedia, very first line in first paragraph. *That is the definition of "communism"!


Scary, isn't it!!! * Do they realize what they are promoting?
G O Whitetails is offline  
Reply

  Deer Farmer > Deer Farming Forum > Cervid Industry

Tags
accept, cwd, rule or standards



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEW FEDERAL RULE CHANGE Jack Cervid Industry 7 Jan 5th 2016 05:02 AM
Finalization of Interim Rule- APHIS jerrilee cave Cervid Industry 1 May 1st 2014 06:01 AM
Does the CWD Standards Go Above and Beyond the Federal Rule? You Decide!! Travis Cervid Industry 4 Aug 26th 2013 12:37 PM
Federal CWD Rule & Standards-- love it or leave it? You decide! Travis Cervid Industry 1 Mar 21st 2013 03:52 PM
Federal CWD Rule Dixie20 Cervid Industry 39 May 18th 2012 04:26 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed