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Old Dec 2nd 2009, 01:32 PM   #1
 
  Aug 2009
  Fort Collins, CO
The National Wildlife Research Center of USDA is conducting an isotope research project with the hopes of assigning distinctive isotope signatures to specific locals or geographic regions. The research is valuable for several reasons; it could help trace the origins of cervids moved for commerce and movements of wild cervids, which could be useful in protecting a farm from disease spread or exposure. It might be possible to differentiate between wild and captive cervids. Our motivation for this research relates to wildlife disease management, and establishing the technique with cervids of known origin will allow us to implement it outside of the fence to improve our understanding of disease transmission patterns and how to best control disease spread.



You can be a part of this important project by sending us hair samples from your deer. In this proof-of-concept stage we are primarily interested in white-tailed deer. We need 12 samples from different deer on each participating farm and a small sample of dirt from right outside the pen. If you happen to be trimming hooves we'd also like to have a small piece of hoof from the same 12 animals.



Sorry all, that was a bit long-winded. If you have any questions about this research or if you'd be willing to participate please send me an email or a private message. I believe some of you have already sent me some samples, many thanks to those who have already participated.
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Old Dec 2nd 2009, 03:29 PM   #2
 
  Mar 2009
  Blairstown, LA
Isn't this the same research facility that CWD was discovered at?
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Old Dec 2nd 2009, 07:37 PM   #3
 
  Aug 2009
  Fort Collins, CO
It's just across the road actually. CWD is one of our main research areas.
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Old Dec 3rd 2009, 03:11 PM   #4
 
  Mar 2009
  Blairstown, LA
What happened to the NAIS? Why do we need another system to track animals when the USDA has not been able to get the tagging system implemented? I am confused.
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Old Dec 4th 2009, 08:29 AM   #5
 
  Aug 2009
  Fort Collins, CO
The NAIS is still in progress. This method is more for tracking disease spread in wild animals as well as farmed animals. We need samples with known points of origin in order to verify that this method will work. Isotopes are already being used in human forensics as well as some wildlife population studies.
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Old Dec 4th 2009, 09:18 AM   #6
 
  Apr 2009
  Tobin Lake, Saskatchewan
truby ,please explain to me why you need samples from deer that are captive if your goal is to track disease in wild deer? These animals have no genetic similarity's to their surrounding population. What age do these animals need to be? How long do they need to be in the current location to give a good test?
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Old Dec 4th 2009, 11:30 AM   #7
 
  Aug 2009
  Fort Collins, CO
Curtis, we need samples from captive deer in order to give us a baseline test. We are hoping to find out whether or not this method is feasible and in order to find out if it works we need samples that are from animals that we know about. The animal's age doesn't matter as long as we have a general idea of the age (we need a broad array of samples). It also doesn't matter how long the deer have been in a current location as long as we know when the deer arrived in that location and where it came from. One of the questions we are hoping to answer is how long an animal would need to be in a given location before the isotopes in the animal would correlate with the location.
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Old Dec 4th 2009, 12:54 PM   #8
 
  Apr 2009
  Valley Mills Texas
Please explain how and why giving you samples would help us as deer farmers.
Rainer is offline  
Old Dec 4th 2009, 01:47 PM   #9
 
  Aug 2009
  Fort Collins, CO
If this method works it could help us (and ultimately, you) to be able to trace the origins of animals. Being able to trace where an animal has been could help to prevent disease spread or exposure, this method could also be useful in recovering lost/escaped/stolen animals.
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Old Dec 4th 2009, 03:45 PM   #10
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep
Interesting as this may be for those studying this it really has no real use for the game rancher as I see it either now or in the future.

My reasons on this are we already have State identification on all animals. In my state they can track the animal from birth to death so all issues are already covered there. If we really want to iD our animals from thieft we have proven DNA for that.

Just my opinion on this.
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Old Dec 4th 2009, 05:09 PM   #11
 
  Apr 2009
  Tobin Lake, Saskatchewan
Truby, you can see a little reluctance from the group, government agencies in all states and provinces,as well as both federal governments have made claims in the past, the old saying "Were from the government and were here to help you", using the top down, hammer mentality when dealing with deer farmers, listening to "the Scientists" because the have "scientific" data and ignoring deer farmers experience, which is basically a long term daily study. You may get a few to help in your study, but the majority will be silent, mostly from the lack of trust, support and public education that the government refuses to take a stand on and let the data speak when anti hunters and holier than thou hunting groups blatantly accuse deer farmers of generating new diseases and spreading them the pure pristine wild population. Fool me once,shame on you, fool me twice,shame on me.
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Old Dec 5th 2009, 08:37 AM   #12
 PaintedMeadowsBJs's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  PA

Cervid: Deer
Amen!!!

No matter how much of a caring and helpful person you are...You can only get bit by a mean dog so many times !!!

You learn to be careful it don't bite ya again...and you learn he'll grab ya without you putting your leg in his mouth for him!





Uh if ya know what I'm talkn' bout!

I feel we have more targets on us as farmers then our deer do!
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Old Dec 6th 2009, 04:35 AM   #13
 
  Apr 2009
I know where you guys are coming from, but think I'll wiegh in here just to bring a different viewpoint for the sake of discussion. In Michigan after the one positive test for CWD one of the many things our DNR did to repress our industry was to claim that the farmer with the index case smuggled in the sick deer from out of state. They contiue to insinuate this with no evidence. As far as I know they failed to preserve any forensic evidence and they have no real reason to spread these rumors. If this isotopic database were in place and proven accurate they would have had to lie about something else The more open we are the better we look . Personally I stand behind this.
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Old Dec 6th 2009, 09:34 AM   #14
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep
One thing I have learned with dealing with government agencies is that they will supply negative information on the deer industry as long as it fits the agenda of closing this industry down. The DNR of Montana which was the deer industries regulator agency supplied much negative information to help shut down the industry. Never was a positive statement made by the DNR for the industry they regulated.



The agency that studied CWD for over forty years was very silent when our critics made the attack on the industry that we were the cause of the CWD problem. They were more than willing to let the industry take the hit for the CWD problem. One would think after studying the CWD problem for over forty years they would have concluded it was a wildlife problem from the start and not a cause from the deer industry. Yes this industry could cause a spreading of the problem if the industry didn't help put in place testing requirement to make this a safe industry for both wildlife and private raised deer and elk. This industry didn't fail it's responsibility to wildlife but the other agencies sure did.



Wildlife experts studied the CWD problem for over the forty years. One would have thought the experts would have put movement requirements on wild harvested deer and elk from the hot spots with CWD to stop the spread of CWD. But no they were more interested in the money wild hunted animals could make for the State and were silent. Trust is earned and as an industry we should look at past patterns of operation from agencies.
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Old Dec 6th 2009, 03:12 PM   #15
 
  Mar 2009
  Blairstown, LA
I for one cannot trust any government agencies to help the deer farmer. All I have ever gotten from helping these agencies is more regulations and alot of grief. I decline to participate in this program and will recommend to all those I contact to decline as well. I really can't see the need for this program with all the other regulations and testing we have to do to be in compliance with state anf federal rules and regulations. Truby, maybe the cattleman's association can participate as it is proven that humans can contact BSE and that is a bigger concern to me.
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