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Old Aug 11th 2012, 08:31 AM   #1
  Apr 2009
Missouri needs your help!!!

Can a member from each state (IL, IN, OH, PA, MN, MI, WI, KY, ETC. tell me what states say that each breeder owns the deer they buy, and which state says that they The Conservation Dept, DNR or Ag Dept own the deer they purchase. This information is critical for the fight that Missouri has coming from Our Conservation Dept.

If you know please post your states rules and a regulation number from that state. Please do not guess, we need facts. Right now Missouri needs your help. The battle between the Missouri Deer Breeders, Hunting Ranches and the Dept of Conservation may set the ground work for every state in the nation if we are not careful. Please I am not looking for guesses, I need facts.
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Old Aug 14th 2012, 07:08 PM   #2
 Whitetail Sanctuary's Avatar
  May 2009
  Chillicothe, Missouri
Eric, Good question..................Not sure why no responses to it, Maybe folks don't know what thier states rules say ?

I do believe folks had better wake up.............If things don't change alot of deerfarmers will have wished they had guessed the score of a buck alittle less and payed alot more attention to the lines being drawn in the sand!
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Old Aug 14th 2012, 07:39 PM   #3
  Apr 2009
  Eureka, MO
I talk to Charly Seals Monday I hope everbody got there comment in on time we need all the help we can get.There playing hard ball thats per fact
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Old Aug 14th 2012, 08:51 PM   #4
  Apr 2009
  Williamsport, PA
Eric, I just came across your post. PA is regulated by the Dept of Ag. We as farmers own our livestock.
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Old Aug 15th 2012, 06:46 AM   #5
  Apr 2009
  Eureka, MO
Josh the two deer rule is from the FEDS the way I herd it.I might be wrong
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Old Aug 15th 2012, 07:34 AM   #6
  Jul 2012
  Russellville, KY
In Kentucky the DRN issues the permits for the fence. We own the deer and they are regulated be the AG dept.
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Old Aug 15th 2012, 08:49 AM   #7
 BMAYES's Avatar
  Jan 2011
  Lentner, MO
I have talked to several deer farmers over the past few days about the issues we face. I hear this comment a lot: "Oh they tried to put us out of business before. Didn't work then, wont work now. We have a right raise our deer on our land".

Would someone who really understands the issues we face outline them on this thread for all to see. The moretorium on permits, the kill 2 healthy deer for any non-conclusive CWD test you submit, and any other issues out there.

Thanks....Bill Mayes
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Old Aug 15th 2012, 03:57 PM   #8
  Jun 2009
  Perryville, Mo. USA
The way I look at this: If the person who made this (kill the other 2) rule, would loose a child, why not kill that child's brother and sister to find the cause of death for the first one?

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Old Aug 15th 2012, 04:37 PM   #9
 Jack's Avatar
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep
We are under the Fish and game for our outer fence but our inventory and animal health is under the Dept of Livestock. We own our elk and deer as private alternative livestock.

Having lived through the 2000 initiative that took away our Montana harvest facilities and stopped all new game ranches from being made I can say we are under attack and have been for a long time. This new CWD plan is a lot like what we signed up for in 1999. We needed to sign up for this CWD plan and when we had five years into this CWD testing we would get relief from animals not being required testing but we had to sign up for it first and change would come later. Sounds like the same crap our president claimed we would get CHANGE. I see no change in the CWD plan except it's getting tighter around this industrys neck. This new plan will get more people out of the business or they will stop using the CWD plan and will no longer sell out of STATE. In the long run this will work to slow the industry from growth. Just what the people against the industry wanted.
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Old Aug 15th 2012, 07:34 PM   #10
  Apr 2009
Eric Michigan has oversight of DNR, fence, inspections and law enforcement, MDA has health issues. Producers own the deer and since 2000 when someone encloses the property no wild deer purchased from state must be cleaned out and verified by DNR. Our law is "Privately Owned Cervidae Producers Marketing Act", Act 190 of 2000 and can be found in the Michigan Compiled Laws (MCL 287.951-969) This is our complete law. We also have operational standards which is a written MOU with DNR and MDA. They can be found on MICH DNR site. If needed let me know. Hope this is what you are looking for. Alex
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Old Aug 15th 2012, 08:52 PM   #11
  Apr 2009
Thanks for the replies so far and here is why I ask this question.

Missouri states that we "deer breeders" do not own the deer we have on our property and feed with our own money and pay taxes on.

I pose these questions:

If I buy a deer in Pa or Ohio or MI or any other state that says the person that purchases the cervid in that state owns that cervid or Livestock; and Mo Dept of Ag allows me the purchaser; to move that animal to such state; how does that automatically make me the owner relinquish my right of ownership to the state of Missouri.

I paid for the deer in a right to own state and have a bill of sale from that state, proper health papers; then I own the animal, right.

Wrong, not in Missouri.

Next question I pose:

Hunting Ranches in Missouri must test all animals that are purchased out of state but do not have to test any animals purchased in state. Missouri knows that they have found CWD in the wild, so why should the hunting ranches have to test an animal from states that have never found cwd in the wild or farmed? Makes no sense does it!

My next question poses the biggest crock, cockamamie, chicken poop thing I have ever heard in my LIFE!!!!

If you have a cervid die and the test results come back inconclusive we must slaughter 2 more animals to make up for the 1 inconclusive. YES, I SAID SLAUGHTER!!! Isn't that what it is. The animal that died was bad enough, because any cervid breeder worth the paper his name is written on would not kill his own animal on purpose, now they are asking us to not only take another perfectly healthy animals life, but 2 perfectly healthy animals lives, just to prove the first animal died of natural causes.

WOW! And not only can that farm not move any animals until the 2 for 1 action has been taken, but the powers that be can call one of those tests inconclusive. What does inconclusive mean. I think we need a very outlined report of just inconclusive means!!!

Last but not least I can tell you one thing. We can not move deer out of the state of Missouri to some states right now. Yes, I know Missouri says "Oh we will let you move anywhere, but the other states regulate the movement. Right!!! Here is what I purpose happens. If a guy from OH, or PA or MI or anywhere but Missouri hunts in Missouri, he or she can not leave the state with that deer. Period! If the hunter takse the deer across state lines the state of Missouri should be in violation of he Lacy Act! That is what I the breeder of the cervid would be in violation of if I moved my cervid without proper health papers. And remember the state of Missouri owns all the deer, they just give us the right to purchases them and then relinquish our rights to the state, continue to feed them, and OH ya, pay taxes on them!!! So really even if the hunter shoots the cervid and takes it to Hawaii the state still owns the cervid so the hunter is not in violation, the state hould be. I bet that would make the state stop and say well these rules suck, let' just do away with this law!!!

Well go that off my chest. We have a very serious battle brewing here and I will tell you, if we do not unite as a ONE FOR ALL DEER FARMING COMMUNITY WE WILL ALL FAIL! That is what these bureaucrats want and they want us all fighting among ourselves! We had all better wake up. This is that call we have all been dreading, the knock one state out at a time syndrome!

We as an industry spend millions on a thing we love called cervid farming! We need to take a different approach when it comes to spending our money. We do not need big glamorous events at expensive hotels, or for each state to pay huge money for individual lawyers and lobbyists, we all need to take our money and unit it towards one goal. Stopping all of the bureaucrats from putting us out of business.

This wake up call is for anyone that is giving their money to any organization that is not spending 100% of or money to fight these causes!

I am the closest case to a positive CWD in the USA (8 Miles), and with that said I have not heard from or seen one member of any state, regional, or National organization that is willing to fight for me or anyone else as far as that goes!!! I have a state President that will not answer the phone, a National President that has never been to my farm and can not even show up to our state convention to address our problems or ask questions of the powers that be. They show up to collect our money when we write them a check but can't be found when the waters get a little rough. Maybe I am just venting, or maybe I am telling the hard cold facts? You be the judge. What have they done to help any of us. We fight CWD, EHD, Feed something we don't own, pay taxes on something we don't own and give our money to organizations that are not willing to help. Maybe we are just asking to fail?

These are the questions I pose to every cervid farmer and Hunt Ranch today!!!

Thank You

Eric Pinkston
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Old Aug 16th 2012, 06:04 AM   #12
  Apr 2009
  Fombell PA
Who is the organization that is not willing to help Eric?
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Old Aug 16th 2012, 08:18 AM   #13
  Jan 2011
  Barnett Mo
If they are so worried about the spread of cwd why not test every deer that is hunter taken and taken to a meat locker. That to me sounds fair seeing as us as deer farmers have to test every deer that dies why should the state not have to test every deer that is shot.


Daywood Whitetails
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Old Aug 17th 2012, 10:37 AM   #14
  Nov 2009

I sent you an email. If you do not get it, give me a call. More info there than I wanted to post on the public forum.


Larry Armstrong

Armstrong Whitetails

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Old Aug 17th 2012, 03:03 PM   #15
  Apr 2011
  Lamar MO
I am in the process of building pens now in Mo. All of the above info concerns me. My big question is will the state give me my permit to raise whitetail. I have been on the phone with my local conservation agent and seems to act like it will be no big deal. I have tried calling headquarters in Jeff city but the people i need to speak with are not there. So dose anyone know if they have stopped all permits or if they are just wanting to? I would hate to spend all his money for nothing. I am going to join Mo deer farmers association tonight. I know that is not much but i figure any little bit will help. Anyone that can fill me in please call or message me. Thanks

Ben Phillips 417-214-4300
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