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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 01:24 PM   #31
 
  Apr 2009
  Alabaster, Alabama
Well said Virgil.
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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 04:52 PM   #32
 
  Sep 2009
  Clermont FL
I second that comment. without free trade we are giving up our rights.
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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 05:29 PM   #33
 roughcountrywhitetails's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Mineral Point, MO
Will,



Could you explan in more detail how it would hurt the industry if your borders were to be open. I not saying your wrong I am just trying to understand how it would hurt the industry. I just don't see how any state with open borders can hurt the industry.
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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 05:35 PM   #34
 
  Jan 2011
  Cropwell, AL
I think its clear that most veveryone is all for open borders for all states. Like i said in a previous post and several others have it will help the industry. Richie if the borders were open you could choose who you sold your deer to and see that they paid upon receipt of your deer. Joe you should run for the comittee
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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 06:14 PM   #35
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
With closed borders they can control the price of there deer inside that state.If a new farmer wanted to start up new he would be at the mercy of the farms he can buy from.Kinda like the big guy getting bigger.The new guy would have to pay the price because he cant come to another state and get mabey a same breeding for much less.Then again if you have shooters to move and there is demand you can set your price.
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Old Feb 22nd 2011, 07:09 PM   #36
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
Randy, it would not hurt the industry by opening the borders but, it would hurt the state of Alabama. They would no longer be able to control there prices. This is not fair for the New folks getting in or the hunting ranches buying shooters or for anyone else in the state who wants to buy from other states.

What I think Will was saying is that if they were to open the borders this would give the state of Alabama to many reasons to shut them down. The thing is it is the same in every state. We all take our chances. Every state with open borders takes chances and that is why we have orgs like NADEFA to back us up. As a org we should make it a point to try and get all borders open and if your borders are not open then your deer should not be aloud to leave either. Semen can go both ways so thats a different story.
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 03:16 AM   #37
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Good points Virgil. Also you need to Look at out industry in Alabama. We are not struggling. Everyone in the state that has good deer for sale always sell out. Our state is one of the markets who isn't struggling right now when other markets are. I think others want our borders open so they can flood our market. Then what!! Then Alabama is in the same situation as everyone else. The breeders up north don't realize one thing... There will not be anyone left to sell deer too in Alabama if the borders are opened!! The day they open 98% of use are out of business. We will be broke overnight and our thriving industry is gone. The 2% that's left already have farms up north creating jobs and revenue up north. They spend millions each year innthe north. That would be gone also. Why take all that away also. What we have in thus state is a business where everyone involved makes money. We sell all deer for good prices. Why would anyone want to put over 200 breeders out of business? That's definitely not good for our industry. That's what everyone needs to look at. I think the people who want us to open our borders are the ones who cant sell their deer up north for one reason or another. So they want to try to move in on our state. Why?? If your quality of deer isn't good enough for up north then what makes you think we want them here. The preserves here have a hard enough time getting hunters here because our shooting prices are higher than the north. We are not cutting each others throat on prices to get hunters. The preserve up north are trying to shoot hundreds of deer to make little profit. I applaud the efforts all our preserves do here to get hunters and treat them right with a hunt of a lifetime. It's not always about the kill. It's being around good people and having a good time. Again there are pros and cons to this issue. But remember if there are no breeders here with money left then you will NOT get paid. Just my 2 cents. It will always be an issue where some agree with opening borders but most Disagree !!!
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 03:56 AM   #38
 roughcountrywhitetails's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Mineral Point, MO
Richie,

Why would you think 98% of Alabama breeders would go out of business? I would like to see all boarders open but if states like Alabama or Texas or any of the others with closed boarders don't open them then the states with closed boarders to inport then they should be closed to export as well
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 04:35 AM   #39
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
Any state that closed its borders would be in the same situation. They would prosper as as long as they could still sell out of state. Maybe we should all close are borders and then what. Every state that is involved with NADEFA should have or be trying their hardest to get borders open.We all cut are losses at one time or a other for the greater benifit of being united as one orginization. You can not and should not reap all the benifits at others expense. You should have to take the good with the bad to be involved. Fair trade is fare trade and a monopaly is not legal for a reason and that is exactly what you have. The US does not and will not deal or trade with a country that has closed borders. Why???

I am not trying to start any fights. I see your guys points but your either all in or your out and that is only what is fair and right for all. It does not take a rocket scientist to see what is going on

Will, I see you have been on here reading this so please tell us how you feel on this matter. Do you think it is fair to sell out of state with closed borders and do you think it is fair to keep your borders closed and why?
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 04:36 AM   #40
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
We have alot of money invested in our deer. We have had to ai for years to get our deer where they are now. If borders were opened then all that time and money are lost. A good deer here is a 200" producer. Up north that's no big deal unless it's a 200" yearling. And that's not a big deal. A 200" inch producer up north most eat. We don't.
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 05:00 AM   #41
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
Richie,think about the new guys in Alabama wanting in. With open borders they could get into the business with way better genetics for the same price as they are paying for way lesser genetics.After all this is supposed to be a free country with equal oppertunity. I do see were you are coming from and I feel for ya but that does not make it right. To be united we must all come together with the same rules and regulations.
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 05:07 AM   #42
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
The northern breeders also need to realize how much money Alabama spends on semen every year. Last year alone I know there were over 1500 straws of semen used. Would the north like to lose that amount is semen sales? I'll also bet you that between us and Texas we buy more semen than all of the north combined!! You can't argue the facts. Closed states invest tens of millions of dollars per year in the north. Why would northern breeders not want that money per year?? The only people that would want borders opened in our state are the ones that have invested little to no money in their deer. That way they could get in cheap. Our does here are good pedigree does but at the recent auctions up north they would being $500. We get 4000. The north has enough 500 does. Why do you want more? Do you think that the breeders who invested time and money to get to where they are now will take that loss and reinvest? NO!! The north is getting the money now with semen sales from us. I don't think you can get it both ways. Also I am not aware of ANY deer that Alabama has exported ever. We don't have too. It's supply and demand. Period. And as far as what people say about Will thinking of himself, that's fine. Because we all do. If any of you can say that your not thinking of yourself when you buy and sell, I'll call you a liar to your face. It's a business. You have to take care or your investment. Do you think any of us would invest our money knowing that you would never make it back? Nope. We all think of Ourselves and making money. You have to. Gas isn't free, living isn't free. Nothing is. You have to make a living to survive ..But if there are some of you who don't think of yourself then I suggest you donate all of your profits. Think of other people. They would love to have it.
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 05:29 AM   #43
 richie0033's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
One more point. I don't understand why everytime this subject comes up everyone is quick to jump on alabama. Alabama hasn't said that we are in trouble or in need of help right now. If everyone would think of helping the industry and making money, then let's help with all the states that dont allow any deer farming or high fences. Wouldn't you like to see them at least be able to have a breeder pen and high fence. Even if their borders were closed , how much money could they spend on semen and other products? It would be millions. So let's help get the other states going. I know that they would appreciate it as they don't get to see good deer
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 06:21 AM   #44
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota
Richard, If your borders are closed, and you can't bring deer in, can you ship deer out of state? Gary
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Old Feb 23rd 2011, 06:30 AM   #45
 
  Jun 2009
Virgil, Randy, Chad, Fred, and Everyone else

Appreciate the discussion and the comments. Let me first give all of you history on Dream Ranch and what we do. We have a deer breeding facility and 1400 acre hunting preserve in Alabama. We have a 50 acre breeding farm in Pennsylvania. We also own or have interest in deer in Ohio with Steven Schrock, In Oklahoma with James Hail, in Texas with Jordan Smrekar, in Wisconsin with Roger Petroski. So we own deer in a lot of states and all of them have a little different regulations and laws pertaining to importation.

As a Nadefa board member I represent all states and our industry as a whole. I don’t believe in taking gambles to potentially jeopardize the industry in a state. If we gamble and lose, then what, we lose another state that is involved in the industry. Timing is everything in politics and the timing is wrong in Alabama. I have said this once and I will say it again; I would rather open up new states with closed borders or semi-closed borders than not open them at all.

Sure ideally every state would have free trade and allow deer farming in the U.S., and it wouldn’t affect my business at all. But let’s get back to reality here!!! In Texas, Alabama, West Virginia, Michigan you can’t bring whitetail deer into the state. In Indiana you can’t bring deer into the state if you’re from a CWD state. You can’t raise Whitetails or it is very restricted to the point there is no industry in Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Massachusetts, Vermont, Rhode Island, Maine, Nebraska, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Washington, Hawaii, Alaska, Oregon.

My goal is to open new states to deer farming. There is strength in numbers, and we need to expand the industry into new states, no matter if the borders are open or not. Ideally it would help the new state to get the genetics advantage of being able to bring deer in, however if the state says no to open borders, then lets open up the deer industry with closed borders or partially closed borders. The indirect economic impact is huge, and that is what we need to push, it will create jobs. If the borders are open great, if not that is fine also, then they can buy semen, and fence, out of state guys can buy deer and keep them on your farm and we have now have a new state in the industry to help us fight the antis (Peta and Humane Society).

The history on Alabama is it’s never been legal to bring whitetails into the state. Alabama has always had closed borders along with its neighboring states. When CWD came out, they put a moratorium on deer breeders in our state, basically eliminating the deer industry. A group of us put together legislation to get the moratorium lifted and now we are working to continue to improve our industry in the state. We are 15-20 yrs behind the rest of the states on regs and laws. However we are continuing to work on the laws and regs in our state.

As far as me making money off the borders being shut, that is just not true, and has no logic. I sell deer for more money in other states than I do in Alabama, which is a fact. I could buy shooters at a lot more reasonable price for our hunting preserve. (right now I pay 70% ). So that argument is bogus.

But I will not do is jeopardize the whole industry and everything we have worked hard for just to try and open the borders at the wrong time. There are a lot of farmers, ranches, and good people that have a lot of money invested for me to gamble with legislation that could put the entire state out of business, and that is foolish. I will not do it, and if that offends you, then vote for someone else. I am for the deer industry in every state: you just have to decide if you’re for the whole industry or just the fortunate people from states with more fortunate regulations and laws.
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