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Old Oct 22nd 2014, 02:13 PM   #31
 
  Mar 2013
  Louisiana


is there a such thing as a mild case of ehd
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Old Oct 22nd 2014, 03:04 PM   #32
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Yes

If the animal or its mother has had a lot of previous exposure to the virus the symptoms might appear mild and linger for 3 or 4 days then the animal will quickly improve. I guess that could be described as a mild case.
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Old Oct 22nd 2014, 03:24 PM   #33
 
  Jul 2014
  Waveland, Misissippi


This weekend Both Rhonda and I and a couple others wanted to address the second wind cave release into the public but on Monday afternoon, they adjourned early and the questions that several of us wanted answers to did not get addressed, I feel that the double standards game is getting old and that if we want good rules and regs that make sense ,I think that state agencies need to adhere to the same stipulations that are induced on all of us. It takes a united voice from all of us in the industry to demand that they adhere to this.* Just my 2 cents
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Old Oct 22nd 2014, 04:03 PM   #34
 
  Sep 2012
  Clear Lake, Iowa
Bell989851414015055

Today there is one less state Indiana can import deer from for at least five years.


Yep.
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Old Oct 23rd 2014, 05:09 AM   #35
 
  Jul 2014
  Waveland, Misissippi


Jerry, Its more political , I think than true health concerns, That's just what I feel. I do know a few people in the federal animal health want to help but they have their hands tied and not allowed to move forward to help. This part I do know as fact.* I brought up at the conference a question to all in the room and asked if anyone knew a number of*confirmed deaths of cwd were recorded in wild animals from 1970 to 2012* . I gave the answer. *I then asked if anyone had an idea of confirmed deaths of EHD*with wildlife agencies for the same time period, Folks in the room said thousands!!* In the 5 months it took me to gather the info from state agencies it totaled 3.7 million deer. And as time has gone on we have found new strains of EHD, can it develop into a new strain in time, yes it has the ability to do so. But it does not ring the dinner bell like cwd does for the wildlife folks and independent conservation groups. So yes Its become a political format to launch attacks at the industry and yet not report* what is truly in the wild. Run the numbers from some of the state agencies vs the states deer population and the time period when they tested, Its a extremely low,low set of numbers In most states its less than 1/2 of 1%.
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Old Oct 23rd 2014, 10:52 AM   #36
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Jon

Thank you for standing up and taking a strong position. Being passive and expecting things will blow over is a naive position. It isn't right that we are held to a different standard with our herds than other livestock. Science should equally apply to all livestock. It is no surprise that we face the regulation that we do today. It is the result of a passive stance in the past by our industry leadership. What is a sacred method of harvesting an animal to our opposition has nothing to do with scientific fact. We have allowed people with animal rights activist roots to find their way into positions of leadership and influence in the agencies that administer our regulation. Debating and discussing CWD with them is a lost cause. They have an agenda. Now going to court is the only way to save our necks. Think about what really happened at the conference. The moderator..
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Old Oct 23rd 2014, 06:35 PM   #37
 
  Jul 2014
  Waveland, Misissippi


Message received Jonathan on Mod. Others saw it as well.*Being a guy that respects truth in good*science and looking at all dimensions of a problem before making a decision has been very important. There are some in the science and research field that are straight line thinkers and not open to other possibilities to a solution. Also there are some that don't like sharing credit . If we can get some of these people past their egos and learn to work together as a cooperative group we could move forward.
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Old Oct 27th 2014, 04:55 PM   #38
 
  Sep 2012
  Clear Lake, Iowa
If we were united, we could move mountains...maybe even government.
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Old Oct 29th 2014, 07:34 AM   #39
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Anyone with an opinion about Boone and Crocket club should get on the Facebook page "Texans for Saving Our Hunting Heritage". The people administering the page are against our industry. We should all stand together with Texas deer ranches collectively on their neck.
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Old Oct 29th 2014, 03:46 PM   #40
 
  Dec 2010
  Sydney, Australia


Looking at the CWD narrative from the outside there is certainly a lot if inconsistencies in the requirements for testing & there appears to be large gaps in in the understanding of prions & prion disease on both sides of the fence. If folks indeed do claim to have understanding of the situation, then it would suggest that many decisions & claims are indeed biased.


*


I've never been an advocate of suing government departments & agencies as they get back at you in the long run, however I would expect that within the government departments there must be agencies whose sole role it is, to protect folks from poor administration decisions. Down here we have ombudsmen. I'm aware of your Environmental Protection Agency having its own ombudsman to protect small businessmen like yourselves from poor communication & decisions by this agency. Failure by this agencies ombudsman to encourage it to think straight & find real & measurable solutions to abate CWD, would IMO then open the door to your congressional representatives to bring & debate this in Washington. This would be less expensive & without the collateral damage from litigation even if you did win the suit. Also keep in mind that governments can & do change legislation to circumvent precedents established through judicial decisions if it suits a purpose.*


*


Facts like CWD being undetectable in calves & fawns before a certain age, yet it being mandatory for just one group of CWD stakeholders, is the type of things you need to highlight to establish that there is a lack of knowledge or bias within regulatory bodies. Find half a dozen points like this, keep them clear & simple so Mr & Mrs average can understand the inconsistencies, but most of all be correct & credible & without bias. I wouldn't raise EHD in any discussion about CWD ever. They are unrelated viruses & combining them in anything that will be read by the general public will just confound things.*


*


IMO, the strongest point that I would be making to congressional representatives if this was to be taken to Washington, is that rather than working towards an abatement plan for CWD, it would appear that the various agencies have instead inflamed the debate between the various stakeholders effected, when they should have been creating allies of them instead & this has allowed the disease to spread further than would have been the case.


*


Sharkey
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Old Oct 29th 2014, 04:44 PM   #41
 
  Sep 2012
  Clear Lake, Iowa
Amen, Sharkey.
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Old Oct 29th 2014, 05:39 PM   #42
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Sharkey

A few more folks with a sharp mind like yours would be very helpful on this side of the pond.
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Old Oct 29th 2014, 06:46 PM   #43
 
  Dec 2010
  Sydney, Australia


I don't know about sharp mate. If I was, I wouldn't get myself involved with half the battles I do. (But here I go again. lol)


*


What I can spot though, is "poor governance". This term, IMO is the way to turn the tables on a few things for you folks. If they create bad & useless regulations, attack the governance & process behind these decisions, not just the new rules & regs. It may have them on the back foot & starting to look over their own shoulders for a change. Nothing scares bureaucrats more than an enquiry into their own governance & its not to difficult to find undisclosed interests or bias in most cases where this exists. Even a link to a hunting association which is against deer farming or game reserves should be enough IMO to exclude a bureaucrat from the decision making process on this issue.


*


I think you have more than enough examples of poor decisions to suggest "poor governance" in relation to your industry & once you get them on the back foot its not to hard to have them display their true opinions or bias, even if its just slips of the tongue.*


*


Still on governance, but in associations. I'm most disappointed at the executives of some of the deer hunting associations who have pointed the finger at other stakeholders. Why do this? *Be honest, are you trying to abate CWD or are you pursuing an "ethical" or "Keepers of the hunting spirit" agenda?


*


Sharkey
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Old Oct 30th 2014, 06:05 AM   #44
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Sharkey

You are indeed correct. Those who have an underlying bias towards the industry that administer and formulate our regulation based on sacred assumptions rather than science need to be defined and exposed. Silence is consent.
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Old Oct 30th 2014, 06:10 AM   #45
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN
Bell,

Rhonda had done a lot of research on these people, until our passive leadership takes it and runs with it, it is no good.
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