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Old May 25th 2014, 05:43 PM   #136
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
Four Seasons Whitetails923931401045666



If farmers dont sell their deer for dirt cheap there would be no need for this discussion.....




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Can I get an AMEN!!!


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I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't see the benefit of producing a product just to sell it at a loss or break even price. If I had no other option it would happen ONCE and I would quit what I was doing.
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Old May 25th 2014, 06:03 PM   #137
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Amen Roger,

It's Sunday! All practiced up. Be long winded if your feelin it bro! Lol
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Old May 25th 2014, 06:15 PM   #138
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer


I could be way off the mark here in my thoughts, but I have a theory on what took place with hunt ranch prices. At least from what I saw over the years here in WI.


At some point the number of growers (non hunt ranch owners) started growing at a pace faster than hunt ranches were adding new clients. Supply and demand dictated that prices being offered to growers started to decline slightly. However the real hit came when many growers decided that they would start their own hunt ranches. The theory was that they could guide a few hunts each year and make more off their bucks they were growing than what hunt ranch owners were offering to pay. I was in fact one of these people. I and another guy started our own hunt ranch. However I will firmly state that we fought a very hard fight to keep our prices in line with what was the average at the time we started offering hunts. It was NEVER our intention to gain our start-up clients by undercutting the existing hunt ranches. We didn't need to do this as we were prepared to start out slow and grow. If we sold only a couple of hunts the first year or two that would be fine.


However there were many of these start-up ranches that started around the same time as us that set out to find clients by undercutting the prices at existing ranches. I myself heard one guy justify it by saying he was, still making more than he would for his bucks if he sold them to another hunt ranch. What then happened was a constant and steady slide downward of prices as each old, and new ranch fought to keep their current clients and find new clients to fill the void of those lost to cheaper places.


Suddenly there became a negative supply and demand issue between hunters looking for hunts and hunt ranches offering hunts. That negative issue further decreased the prices of hunts.


I recall Bill, my partner in the hunt ranch telling me, "We can't keep our prices at $20k for a 200" buck because guys are telling me they can get them cheaper at........" ( I will leave out the names of these cheaper ranches as that is no longer important )


Soon we were dealing with clients showing us other ranches that were selling 200" hunts for $5k and even as low as $4500 each!!! We refused to lower our prices to that point and finally stood our ground.


I will make note that these start-up ranches that come online and were slashing prices were of all sizes. Big and small, fancy and basic. At some point competing with these places became impossible and we were left to just accept that we would lose some and keep others. We were fortunate because we kept some quality clients based on the fact that we provided a real product that they would in fact get an opportunity at. Unlike some places that said they had big deer and they didn't and tried to undersell the hunter a small buck. Also Bill and Jon do a fantastic job of entertaining the clients. Many have become friends as a result.


So if I did a good enough job of explaining myself I hope it will make sense to some of you.
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Old May 25th 2014, 06:49 PM   #139
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Roger,

I appreciate your thoughts. That is the first time I have heard someone discuss that side of things. It's kind of what I thought. You put the meat and potatoes out there and I understand where you are coming from. I edited that in my last post about being long winded. I was walking to the house from the deer pen reading from my fancy phone. I saw a pretty long paragraph next. Hope you saw the humor in the edit.
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Old May 25th 2014, 06:50 PM   #140
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  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Does Nadefa still have a preserve council? Thought I remembered Dave Griffith heading up this committee several years ago.
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Old May 25th 2014, 07:20 PM   #141
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
Roger, you hit the nail on the head but the bottom line is greed. We have more than enough breeders I don't care what anyone says. If preserves would keep a fair set rate they would have no problem finding shooters. They are hurting their selves and obviously don't even realize it. Time for all to work together and for people to use their heads.

Never thought i would say this but this maybe the first time I agree with most the things you say Roger. As far as ideas for what to do I'm on the same page. We need to start a list of ideas and take to Nadefa and State organizations.
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Old May 25th 2014, 07:28 PM   #142
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
I to am guilty of selling hunters deer for the same price that preserves used to pay me. I got friends that have preserves that they let me use. By undercutting preserve prices I can sell deer for more than preserves are willing to pay me. I no lots more that are starting to do this and in the long run it will hurt us all. I would much rather us all work together. Before it gets ugly and paints a bad picture for us all.
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Old May 25th 2014, 07:52 PM   #143
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Jerri Lee,

Several post back you posed the question about a national preserve organization. I think Nadefa had a hunting ranch council at one time. I believe it was headed up by Dave Griffith. I don't know if there is still any Nadefa committee for preserve issues anymore. I ask a couple times about it already. I'm guessing it's no more. Does anyone know?
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Old May 25th 2014, 09:28 PM   #144
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
Bell924141401068940



Roger,

I appreciate your thoughts. That is the first time I have heard someone discuss that side of things. It's kind of what I thought. You put the meat and potatoes out there and I understand where you are coming from. I edited that in my last post about being long winded. I was walking to the house from the deer pen reading from my fancy phone. I saw a pretty long paragraph next. Hope you saw the humor in the edit.




I didn't see any post about being long winded. Trust me, I know I can be long winded. But I like trying to make my points clear for everyone. I also like sharing my ideas and thoughts with hope they help others.
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Old May 25th 2014, 09:32 PM   #145
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
Bell924181401072722



Jerri Lee,

Several post back you posed the question about a national preserve organization. I think Nadefa had a hunting ranch council at one time. I believe it was headed up by Dave Griffith. I don't know if there is still any Nadefa committee for preserve issues anymore. I ask a couple times about it already. I'm guessing it's no more. Does anyone know?




Yes there was a council headed by Dave some years ago. I have no idea if it is still active or not. I sure hope it is. We need a force in action about this topic.
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Old May 25th 2014, 09:33 PM   #146
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
virgil924161401070812




Never thought i would say this but this maybe the first time I agree with most the things you say Roger.




Easy Virgil. Don't get crazy now. You will never be able to sleep tonight.
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Old Jun 25th 2014, 05:28 AM   #147
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
virgil937731403699286


I guess the PA association doesn't like the idea of a hunting ranch association. They sent letters to inform they are no way apart of this group. What a shame you think they would support and back it and stay united. Seems to me all they are doing is trying to help people by moving shooters. Divided is not a good thing just saying.
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Old Jun 18th 2015, 10:10 AM   #148
 
  Jun 2015
  Tennyson, Indiana
We need a industry standard on our minimum acreage for PAID HUNTERS. We shouldn't support small preserves the runs hunts. They make us look bad. However, personal use on small preserves is the land owners choice.
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