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Old Sep 24th 2014, 06:47 AM   #16
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
That's what we are dealing with in our first season as a closed border. Some ny farmers sold early to out of state buyers and now the Ny ranches are not finding enough animals! Does will not sell to anyone unless they are new farmers or a special breeding. I'm not sure of the answer myself but will say its hard to try and sell your animals in your closed border because you want to support your state when you can sell for more money for the same animal out of state!
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 09:32 AM   #17
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
The mature hunt bucks will be gone in every state earlier than ever before. Numbers simply aren't there. If preserves in any state pay a price across the board for a certain score that state will quickly suffer a loss of clientele because appearance will not matter. Many of the cheap hunt bucks being sold are from the many farms that are selling out. Economics 101 will to smack the backside everyone because of it.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 10:16 AM   #18
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Agreed! All 150 inch bucks don't look the same and you can't get the same price for a 13 inch inside spread that you would for a 20 inch wide open buck! I know some of the ranches here are now going more on a 60/40 split with the farmer on top!! A closed state with only a few hunting ranches will have a different pay scale them one that's not closed!
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 10:34 AM   #19
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
It is nice to see some are thinking about this with the future of the entire industry in mind.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 11:26 AM   #20
 
  Mar 2013
  Louisiana


here in Louisiana the border closed nov. of 2012 an I guess there were both pros and cons to it. the *pros were the price of deer went up not only for shooters but for does. a person cant hardly find a nicely bred doe fawn for under 1000 bucks and that's nicely not super . the $ for shooters seem to be good and there will be a shortage of them again this year.the cons are that the only way to upgrade is through semen imports and ai your does. deer farming is a risky business just ask Bell. when you lose a deer the cost of that deer has to be divided among the ones that survive. so when you lose a shooter the $ of the rest of the shooters have to go up to compensate for the one you lost. in deer farming there are farmers doing it for a living ,some as part time and some as hobby . as soon as the short horns[that's what I call them] get out the $ will rebound. but this is true in any business and the strong will survive and life will be peaches and cream once again
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 11:52 AM   #21
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN
There is one state with 4 preserves that will be eating their deer if they can't sell out of state. Which it is just one test away. INDIANA
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 12:03 PM   #22
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Imagine what would happen if corn farmers could only sell their crop in Indiana because of CWD. As Michael mentioned in a response in a previous topic we are such a small industry compared to the likes of Walmart & Amazon. One person or preserve coming off the rails can screw things up.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 12:12 PM   #23
 Show Me Racks's Avatar
 
  Aug 2012
  Billings, MO
I had a member of the MDC try and tell me closing the borders would not affect us. I told him to tell Walmart they could only do business in state or to tell the MDC that. He had no reply.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 06:22 PM   #24
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN


Midwest, I do not think is simple economics 101.* There are toooooooo many variables in farming these animals. THEY LOOK FOR A WAY TO DIE! PERIOD!* We are not making clothes or furniture here.* It is not good business sense for the farmer to grow as much as they can and sell for less.**A few animal losses can eat up all the profit especially if you sell cheap.* Most are not doing this to break even or take a loss every year.* You may not*lose many to EHD in Michigan but talk to the rest of the country.* It cost them to feed those does every year*that produced those bucks that died from it*plus you cost in the buck.* There is NOTHING SIMPLE about it.* Maybe we should all have our heads examined for doing this.** There is* more risk and less reward*than the stock market.*
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 07:07 PM   #25
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Jerri Lee

I don't see how anyone with any sense would buy expensive semen or breeding stock until the industry gets a decent vaccine for the EHD virus.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 07:20 PM   #26
 
  Aug 2014
  Montgomery, AL


This is great discussion. Keep it up. There are so many different markets in different states and different areas it would be hard to compare them all for one simple solution, but I agree it seems the threats of CDW (not necessarily the desease itself), EHD, and regulations are where we might be impacted the most when it comes to market prices.


*


I admit this industry was candy coated when described to me in the beginning (easy and profitable), but it seems to be much like any other business. You have to cut costs, work hard, have a good reputation, and hope nothing disasterous happens.
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Old Sep 24th 2014, 08:02 PM   #27
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN


t-hat


one thing about other businesses is that usually the one operating can control destiny.* EHD takes no prisoners.* You can do everything possible and it wipe your entire herd out.* the 2012 drought did just that to some people.*


*


Jonathon,


I really think that's one reason*why the north is very stagnant in semen sales. You cant spend 5k on a straw and have nothing to show for it when the animals SHOULD have been 2.* You can't sell DEAD.
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Old Sep 25th 2014, 05:29 AM   #28
 
  Oct 2009
  Sherwood, MI
jerrilee cave979661411611761



Midwest, I do not think is simple economics 101.* There are toooooooo many variables in farming these animals. THEY LOOK FOR A WAY TO DIE! PERIOD!* We are not making clothes or furniture here.* It is not good business sense for the farmer to grow as much as they can and sell for less.**A few animal losses can eat up all the profit especially if you sell cheap.* Most are not doing this to break even or take a loss every year.* You may not*lose many to EHD in Michigan but talk to the rest of the country.* It cost them to feed those does every year*that produced those bucks that died from it*plus you cost in the buck.* There is NOTHING SIMPLE about it.* Maybe we should all have our heads examined for doing this.** There is* more risk and less reward*than the stock market.*




*


How are there more variables in farming deer then lets say running a production facility? Deer farmers have deer die, feed cost rises. vet bills, Production companies also see a rise in material cost, they have equipment break, repairable or need replaced, workman's comp bills, unemployment bills and they also have to warranty their product. You HAVE to figure those cost into your business plan. Me I would plan on loosing a few deer every year depending on how big I was. If I couldn't compete with other farmers I would change my business plan up. *As others have stated the shooter market is continuing to change and so should you. That's why the ones on top are still on top, they have learned how to "beat" the system.*
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Old Sep 25th 2014, 06:29 AM   #29
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN
Your forgetting one big thing here compared to non-agricultural businesses. They have insurance to cover most loses on materials, or they should anyway. Farmers have crop insurance. You will go broke even quicker in the deer business by paying very high premiums. That's even if you can find it. Plus they only will cover acts of God. They will not cover ehd, fuso, anesthetic loss etc.


I would venture to say even the best managed farms have loss rates that you would be surprised about.


You have to realize this cut rate pricing is in no way good for this industry. It will be a vicious circle. Preserves that don't raise their own animals will be out of business. They will not be able to compete. When the little farmer is gone there will be nobody to provide him with animals. Maybe that's what everybody wants, I don't know. Even most preserve owners that raise their own animals still need to buy by the end of the year.

We put too much work in this to just break even. Try telling wal-Mart they need to just break even.
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Old Sep 25th 2014, 07:32 AM   #30
 
  Oct 2009
  Sherwood, MI


I understand cut rate pricing isn't good for the industry. But there will always be greed out there or fear of loosing it all. That's why I said earlier has any farmers ever offered to buy the deer that others are wanting to sell for under market value? That way they don't go to the preserves for less then what majority thinks market value should be? In this world you have to look out for your self and do whats best for you because no one else is.*
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