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Old Jul 17th 2009, 09:15 AM   #1
  May 2009
  Neenah, WI
Trying to plan ahead for this falls breeding season. I'll apologize now for the length of this, but there is an incredible amount of knowledge on this site, and I'd like to hear some thoughts.

My father's farm (Little Falls Whitetails) is his "hobby" but takes a substanial amount of his time given he has over 100 deer. I try to help out as much as I can, such as the record keeping, and planning. So I thought I'd look for some outside thoughts.

Going into the fall, we will have a total of 52 does, of which we will keep around 35-40 to fawn the following year. We currently have the following does:

8 Maxbuck Daughters, 14 Slapshot daughters, 11 Turk daughters, 6 "Park Buck" daughters, 2 avalanche daughters, a Redoy Weatherby daughter, a Walk's Savage daughter, a Walter daughter, and 4 other does out of our own stock. We will keep the Maxbuck daughters, some of the Slapshot and Turk daughters, the Park Buck daughters and the "good name" does.

Since dad works full time, and I live an hour away, we are not able to track the fawns on the doe side, other than this year in our pen of "good" does. To help with this, we have seperated the does by sire, so that all the does with the same sire are in the same pen. That way we know what the sire side is on top and bottom.

Primary goal for us is to grow big framed typical deer, since we consider our farm as a stocker farm, that is, supplying preserves.

Available breeder bucks:

Maxbuck - 7yr old grandson of Max. Was 208 SCI last year as a 5x5 with some kickers. Should be at or over 200 again this year.

Slapshot & Turk - 4yr old Highroller sons. Both are clean typicals that look real nice but don't score real high (Probably 150 - 160 range this year). However, Turk has some very nice typical 2yr olds sons 150 range. Turk's doe side is out of Big Red, and Slapshot's doe side is a 220 typical frame.

Bowtie - 3yr old Maxbuck son that was in the 150's at 2, and has taken off this year. Primarily typical with a few extras that should be 180-200 range. We think his Mom is an Avalanche doe, but do not know for sure.

0155 - 3yr old Maxbuck son that has a great look to him. Perfect 5x5 with a brow kicker and a small fork on G-2. Close to 24 wide with good tines and beams. Will be 170's, and maybe 180's depending on how he finishes.

"Park Buck" - 5 yr old buck that was 7x6 last year in the mid 180's, and also 180's at 3. Looks to be close to 200 this year and fairly clean as well. Only have 2 two year old sons from him and they are OK, but nothing special.

0261 - 3yr old that is out of a 170@4 buck. Was nice clean 10 last year with a big forked G-2, with long tines. This year he piled on the mass and looks like he could be in the 180-190 range this year, and possibly more depending on what his tine lenth is.

0322 - 2yr old Maxbuck son that was 17pt last year, and probably our biggest yearling ever. This year I haven't gotten a good look at him, but am told he is showing over 16 pts on a pretty typical frame, with great mass. Real pretty buck that will be over 160 for sure, and could be much much higher. Last year most his growth occured in mid July to early August. We believe he is also our of an Avalanche doe, and a full brother to Bowtie.

Most of these deer are in my albums on the home page.

The biggest questions I would have are:

1. Would it make sense to cross Turk with the Slapshot does to get Highroller on top and bottom. Even though they both don't score real high, Turk's oldest sons at 2 look real good, and they are Highroller sons.

2. When crossing genetics, do you amplify the positives, or try to offset weaknesses. That is, do you breed your buck with the best browtines to your does whose sire had the best browtines, or do you us your buck with the best brow tines to breed your does with a sire that had short browtines in order to bump their offspring up. Same for spread, mass, tine length, etc.

3. What 4 bucks other than 0322 would you breed with and what cross would be a good fit.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read all this. Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Little Falls Whitetails is offline  
Old Jul 19th 2009, 08:06 AM   #2
  Jul 2009
I would breed bow tie to your turk does .just a thought from looking at your pics and from what you have said so far .
rockingH is offline  
Old Jul 21st 2009, 07:20 AM   #3
  May 2009
  Neenah, WI
Thanks rockingH.

Finally got some pictures of our 2yr old breeder buck. Thinking of naming him "Seven-Up" due to being a typical 7 on the right side. Looks like he will be a clean 7 on the right, and a mainframe 6 on the left, with a double brow, forked G-2, double (or triple) G-4, and two other kickers for 18 or 9 points. Last year he grew late into August, so we are hoping he puts on the tine length.

Any estimates on final score?
Attached Thumbnails
Advice on Fall Breeding Lineup-0322-3.jpg   Advice on Fall Breeding Lineup-0322-1.jpg   Advice on Fall Breeding Lineup-0322-2.jpg   Advice on Fall Breeding Lineup-0322-4.jpg  
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Old Jul 24th 2009, 03:14 PM   #4
  Jul 2009
a very nice looking buck ,like the name too. I would guess hime 160-180 depends on how he finishes and oh yeah I am wrong alot on scores through pics .But anyway you have a very good looking buck you can be proud !
rockingH is offline  
Old Jul 25th 2009, 11:30 AM   #5
  Jul 2009
We have had pretty good luck breeding does to bucks that shore up their weaknesses. Such as breeding a buck that passes long brows to does that consistently throw bucks with short brows. Just as a general breeding guideline for us, but we are only breeding for good looking shooters 180-200SCI at 3 years of age.
fars is offline  
Old Jul 27th 2009, 03:53 AM   #6
  May 2009
  Neenah, WI
Thanks fars.


I am in the same boat on score. Tines are short right now, but look like they have some growing to do yet. Biggest question is the mass measurements. I'm thinking right around 165 - 170, but can see him going higher if his tines continue to grow.
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Old Jul 27th 2009, 08:40 AM   #7
  Jul 2009
  Ogdensburg, WI
Hi Rick,

I would have to say the combination you used for producing the yearling I bought

from your farm worked out great. He is now a 7x6, not bad for a late fawn.

The only picture I have for you is over a month old, and boy has he grown since

this picture. Thanks for your dedication in breeding strickly for big frame typicals.

I also appreciate your dad's dedication to making sure I got a good breeder buck

to start with. Thanks

Dusty Reid
Old Jul 30th 2009, 06:45 AM   #8
  Jul 2009
  Ogdensburg, WI
Here's a picture of the yearling we got from you last year Ric.

He's got some points that are not visible in the picture.

He's got some great potential.
Attached Thumbnails
Advice on Fall Breeding Lineup-200.jpg  
Old Nov 4th 2009, 07:25 AM   #9
  May 2009
  Neenah, WI
Well, we decided not to do AI this year, running out of time. We will be using the following bucks to breed:

Maxbuck - typical 10 with triple brows that will be over 200 again this year. He will be bred to does out of the following sires: Avalanche (2), Weatherby, Walter, Walk's Savage, Blade, and 3 daughers out of the same does.

Bowtie - Really finished strong. Ended up at 194 at 3 years old, with a 23" spread and 25" beams. Beautiful buck. He has double brows that run to the base, so if scored via SCI, he'd be over 200. He will be bred to our Turk does, and a couple Slapshot does. Both Turk and Slapshot are Highroller sons that had nice typcial frames, whose oldest sons are looking good at 2.

Seven-up - He is also a Maxbuck son. He also finished strong, and will most likely be int eh 175 - 185 range at 2, on a typcal 7x6 frame, with a 4 other kickers. Great mass and frame. Can't wait to see what he does at 3. He will be bread to 1/2 sisters, (same sire, different dames), along with a couple slapshot daughters. Will be interested what this breeding will bring.

Lastly, we used a 2 year old son of Turk to breed our Park Buck does. The Park Buck ended up at 212 at 5, with a typical frame. This 2yr old broke off both horns early this summer, but was very nice at that time.
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Old Nov 4th 2009, 01:48 PM   #10
 Antlershed's Avatar
  Apr 2009
  cental Pennsylvania

Cervid: taxidermy
Sounds like a great lineup of breeders, Best of luck to you, hope you get a lot of little bucks next spring.
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Old Nov 4th 2009, 05:37 PM   #11
  Apr 2009
  Tobin Lake, Saskatchewan
we like our bucks to be at least three, to give them more body size, my rule for growing bucks breed with a deer that at two has the minimum horns size your looking for at three (160 -180) our ai (4 to 10 does per year) will give us bigger and pasture breeding is starting to suprise us
CurtisLloyd is offline  

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