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Old Feb 24th 2010, 10:37 AM   #16
 
  Apr 2009
  Nowata, OK
Matt, i like your idea. If you don't have a market for them, EAT THEM. I'm sure a few shelters would take the meat and it could be a nice tax writeoff too.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 11:13 AM   #17
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
Quote:
Originally Posted by gcw matt
I have always told everyone that we were raising shooter bucks. We only want to keep about 10 does. We hope to get 7 three year old shooter bucks a year out of these does. We now have 11 does. Our does we AI'ed this year should produce good quality bucks for us, and hopefully we can sell a few does to shooter breeders. Our AI does fawns will stay on the farm this year, so this will leave us with more does than we want. The truth in any livestock farming is you eventually sell or eat you does. This years live bread doe fawns are not needed either. Our breeder buck is a good shooter producer, but his does are shooters also. We have decided to advertise what we have and if they are not bought as 2 day old fawns they will become slim jims this fall. Some will say that's horrible you can't just kill your pets and eat them. Yea i can! I have done it with my beef cattle for years. It will cost me to have these animals processed, but my friend and family will enjoy the sausage. I would rather spend the money to give them away as food than keep them and spend the money on feed for them and their daughters and their daughters daughters. Reality has to come into view sometime folks!


Matt,

You my friend are using common sense. You must depopulate your herd immediately. We can not have common sense in this industry

Great post though. You have established a limit of breeding does. This keeps your herd numbers under control and prevents you from feeling trapped by a huge feed bill. You keep your young stock because it improves on your herd quality. But you also keep in mind that every doe born is not breeder quality, and you don't try and sell her off as being one. You see the difference between a good shooter producing animal and a true breeder market animal.

Congrats to your herd plan!
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 11:54 AM   #18
 
  Apr 2009
  Poplar Bluff, Missouri
Quote:
Originally Posted by acutting
Fars you are right and Rick I don't disagree with what you are saying. The point is the way the industry is running right now more and more breeders are popping up all over the country yet the need for shooters sadly does not seem to be increasing at the same rate. So what you are ending up with is a pyramid scheme. Breeders are selling to new breeders who will sell to newer breeders and so on. Don't get me wrong I understand needing to make money off the animals and pay the bills. What I'm saying is sooner or later the breeding market will end up drying up. There will always be a need for good producing deer just like any other industry. But there are farmers who seem to be dedicating there whole operation to nothing but producing breeder bucks. People are seeing these high prices coming from breeders and now everyone is trying to sell "breeder" deer to bring in more money. Yet in the end its like the dairy industry a gallon of milk is still a gallon of milk doesn't matter if it came out of a free cow or a $10,000 dollar cow (i'm not getting into the arguement of there are different qualities in the milk and so on) to your average consumer it doesn't matter where it came from its a gallon of milk. Just like the deer 150 inch deer is just that. It doesn't matter to the hunter if that deer had a $10,000 dollar straw of semen to create him or a $100 dollar straw or came out of a $500 doe or a $5,000 doe. My overall point is I think a lot of people are losing focus on the big picture. Either way this discussion needs to be taken to a different thread at this point its some what off topic from the original purpose of this thread and should be discussed in a more private setting anyways.


Very good point, my hunters don't care if their shooter buck is out of maxbo/superdoe or a buck that produces really nice shooters .. They just want to put some hot lead through his side.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 12:58 PM   #19
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
Started new thread for ya in the proper place.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 03:40 PM   #20
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
Quote:
Originally Posted by Split-Hoof
Deerchaser, From what I understand Alabama is fairly infant in the whole deer industry compared to other states(Texas, Pennsylvania) for instance. What makes you think the breeder market will be saturated soon when these states have been doing it and still going strong for thirty years.
First of all the number of new breeders in Alabama is growing at a pretty fast pace which is encouraged by the price being paid for breeders. In any market if the price is high enough it will attract competition. Right now in Alabama it seems every doe is for the breeder market even without a pedigree. I was not suggesting that the breeders would be worthless but the price would come down quite a bit here. A doe with no pedigree is $3,500 and a high end doe is much more. This will not continue forever. The price will come down as the supply goes up. We have some farms that have the resources to do well in the long run as breeders but what about the small farms without the resources that have bought into the high end breeders. If they have to start selling there deer as shooters will they not lose money. It just seems to me that everybody is aiming for the 300 inch market and if we all get there who is going to buy our deer. The average person is not going to pay enough to shoot that deer but with good deer at a reasonable price you can afford to raise 160 - 180 inch deer at 2-3 years of age.

The next thing is the breeders have seen an exceptional growth in the genetics in the past few years and gowing these type of superior deer will always pay well. With AI these genetics are being spread at lightning speed and that is a good thing. But we may have reached a plateu on the growth of antlers that will be hard to break. Unless the growth continues, bucks of today will be shooters in a few years and if everyone has the high end deer where is the incentive to pay breeder prices with so many people having breeders. I hope I am wrong and no breeder that has invested the money to be in the high end is left selling their offspring as shooters.

I am definitely not saying I am right but just offering food for thought. Please by all means don't think that I think I am an authority on this industry. I have only been raising deer for a few years.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 04:40 PM   #21
 
  Dec 2009
  Henryetta,OK
All good points! I too raise cattle and know how it works. About 20% of your yearly income is "salvage", you sell off the old non producers at a very low price to move them and they end up at MCds or the cheap steak buffet. This keeps cattle numbers down. I agree there needs to be more focus on culling does and removing them from the breedign circle. I think the culture of deer farming needs to embrace it and go that way as cattle people have. I have paid $1500 for a cow and bred her 5 years and sold her for hamburger at $500, you cannot see that as loss, you have to figure the 5 offspring she produced covered the loss.



This may not work but what if someone put in a ranch to just shoot does and everyone donated unwanted deer to the ranch, they would be shot by kids or some kind of disabled people or something like that that could be considered a non profit tax deduction. I think if we could come up with a way people could donate the does and still gain something on the taxes, people would do it.( and also help kids and others...)
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 05:30 PM   #22
 
  Apr 2009
  Fombell PA
This is why we as an industry need to push for a meat market for our deer. the venison as we all know is better for you than beef and if marketed right could open up a new end market for our cull does. It seems that there isn't much of an interest to explore this option though and have always wondered why.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 05:34 PM   #23
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
Dennis I'm not absolutely certain but I think it is against the law in Alabama to sell venison.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 05:46 PM   #24
 
  Apr 2009
  Clanton, Alabama
It is against the law it would not be if our breeders were under ag. ADA dont wont that.

Are I should say some of them dont wont that some do.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 05:50 PM   #25
 
  Apr 2009
  Fombell PA
Yeah guys I realize that it is but if we as an industry would look into it further and pushed the right buttons I'm certian we could get it legalized...Cattle were wild animals at one time too.....we as an industry would just need to do more homework and find out how to get it pushed through...of course then we would have to deal with the USDA along with the Dept of Ag......i guess we don't need anymore people to deal with with all the testing we have to do already!!
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 06:04 PM   #26
 
  Jul 2009
  Greenwood, IN (For now)
Hey guys there is a new thread started in the Members section to continue this discussion.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 06:10 PM   #27
 
  Apr 2009
  Polk, PA located in west central pa
Yeah Dennis post on the right thread. You have to excuse him he is a little slow or what some call it mentaly challenged. He can't help it so pleaseforgive him.
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Old Feb 24th 2010, 06:11 PM   #28
 
  Apr 2009
  Fombell PA
That cut deep virgil.....really Deep!!
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Old Feb 27th 2010, 07:52 AM   #29
Brazos Valley Deer Ranch
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Yes, that's what they call me! Our deer will eat cookies from my hand...a sight to see for sure and I'm a woman.

I'm the ranch manager and part owner of "Brazos Valley Deer Ranch".

I have definite "theories on how to obtain" that Trophy buck. We have one of the largest pure Texas deer, Hugo, and one of his son's, Homer" may be bigger....we'll see this year.



My question is: Are any of you "rancher's" out there as convinced as I am that nutrition varies at different times of the year, meaning allot.



Many think it's only protein, protein, protein......
 
Old Feb 27th 2010, 08:01 AM   #30
 
  Apr 2009
  Tobin Lake, Saskatchewan
crudasill, we use the weed screenings from grain to add to our pellet , they are a big part of the browse that deer eat.
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