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Old Sep 10th 2014, 10:10 AM   #1
 
  Aug 2014
  Montgomery, AL


New guy here. Trying to learn as much as I can by reading previous posts. I dont want to be the new guy that comes on strong with tons of questions, but I have one I cant seem to find addressed yet.


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We are starting with a few foundation patrick does, and a couple of AI products that we are not 100% sure of their pedigree, but its decent stuff. We want to build a buck that keeps a good look but has a bit of trash to make each one unique and different. We will have to build toward what we want. I get that much. But on which end do most people start? Do I pile on the bone and then try to form it up? Or do you get the look you want and then add some genetic that can add the extra stuff we like? Most of the breeder bucks I see are monsters with a tons of bone going every direction, but I also see (a smaller amount) of bucks that keep "the look" but dont quite score as high. Im guessing these two types are what is used in chosing and shaping genetics.


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Or maybe I have it all wrong and its not REALLY possible to get what you want.


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Thanks. You guys are very helpful and informative in your answers on this forum.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 10:33 AM   #2
 Padencreek's Avatar
 
  May 2011
  Linesville, PA
I would breed with the best genetics you can afford, even if that means breeding fewer doe and don't bother with stuff you aren't 100% sure of. It takes time to get to the point that you can even sell a deer but it doesn't take long to accumulate a lot of start up expense, so start with great genetics from the beginning. To try to answer your question, I would choose a sire that scores high but has a large frame. Patrick does tend to throw more typical buck so in combination with a large scoring sire, you should get something decent...in two or three years that is.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 10:45 AM   #3
 
  Sep 2010
  Wykoff, MN
Always build the frame first! It is very easy to add mass and inches. I think you have a great start with the Patrick doe's! Very predictable and good frame building genetics.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 11:24 AM   #4
 Clearview Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Sep 2010
  Indiana

Cervid: raising deer
Frame, Frame, Frame. As a preserve owner and have sold many bucks for guys, if they do not have a FRAME we can not sell them. Patrick is a very smart line to get and stay with it.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 11:56 AM   #5
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
In the nineties a breeder thought they had some something special when a buck got a split tine. Extras are defensive tines that are grown to catch the competing bucks horns before they cause an injury. Since they came off the ark Mother Nature and survival of the fittest has ingrained typical discipline into the whitetail. The best advice I can give is build your main frame off of great main beam length. Remember anything beyond the g-3 is an unnatural tine for the whitetail to grow. Look through the sale catalogues and find bucks with great g-4's if you want more mainframe points. Build a main frame producing doe line then add the extras via sexed semen would be my advice. Don't forget to build an animal that fills in the top of the balanced square frame. If you build giant bodies your bucks will always carry their antlers well regardless of size. Build your herd by pasture breeding your own bucks and outcross your herd by AI. Don't bring in someone else's problems.

Good luck and enjoy your animals!
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 12:50 PM   #6
 Antlershed's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  cental Pennsylvania

Cervid: taxidermy
Welcome T-Hat, don't be afraid to ask all the questions you want, you can never ask too many when starting out.

I really agree with all the replies so far, you are getting some great advice so far.
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 01:23 PM   #7
 jerrilee cave's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Markleville IN
Read randy barks article in the last deer tracking about getting out the hacksaw. Stay with that philosophy on frames and you will be good for years to come! No better to start with than the Patrick line, and don't part with those does unless they don't produce. My 2 cents
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Old Sep 10th 2014, 08:54 PM   #8
 
  Jan 2011
  Houston, Texas
T-Hat972871410372625



New guy here. Trying to learn as much as I can by reading previous posts. I dont want to be the new guy that comes on strong with tons of questions, but I have one I cant seem to find addressed yet.


*


We are starting with a few foundation patrick does, and a couple of AI products that we are not 100% sure of their pedigree, but its decent stuff. We want to build a buck that keeps a good look but has a bit of trash to make each one unique and different. We will have to build toward what we want. I get that much. But on which end do most people start? Do I pile on the bone and then try to form it up? Or do you get the look you want and then add some genetic that can add the extra stuff we like? Most of the breeder bucks I see are monsters with a tons of bone going every direction, but I also see (a smaller amount) of bucks that keep "the look" but dont quite score as high. Im guessing these two types are what is used in chosing and shaping genetics.


*


Or maybe I have it all wrong and its not REALLY possible to get what you want.


*


Thanks. You guys are very helpful and informative in your answers on this forum.




*


There's several ways to skin a cat.* The Patrick foundation is as solid as they come.* A lot of Scenic Ridge and Red Ridge deer come from that foundation and both ranches produce great bucks.* They produce good frames. If I had solid patrick does I would try to get more push then cross back in frames.* Fear Factor is Rolex on Patrick... Rolex has produced some great deer and so has Fear Factor... With solid Patrick that's where I'd start.
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Old Sep 11th 2014, 05:37 AM   #9
 
  Aug 2014
  Montgomery, AL


TRUTH are you in my head? I just had discussions yesterday about a breeder and we settled on Fear Factor to sire our patrick does. Very good width, uptines, and beam length. We are going to sprinkle in some Max Factor as well just because I like him. Thats funny you made that recommendation when we were already leaning that way. Thanks for your comment.
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