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Old Aug 29th 2012, 08:33 PM   #1
 
  Jun 2010
  Piqua, OH
Hey folks...been a while since I last posted on here...



We just received letters in the mail notifying us of our switch to the Dept. of Ag and we're trying to figure some stuff out...some of the new laws seem really difficult and my boss is considering selling off the entire herd depending on what we learn on this.



A little background info...



We have a farm of around 75 acres available for the deer to run...30+ acres of woods. All fenced in and gated obviously. We used to have a pretty big breeding operation and sold to hunting preserves all over the state, but since the economy tanked we don't really sell anything anymore...nor do we usually purchase anything. We breed a little to keep the herd going, but that's it. My boss is a retired businessman and just enjoys going out and feeding the deer in the evenings. We've got about 75 deer on the farm.



According to what my boss has told me (I'll get ahold of the letters tomorrow to read them for myself)...the newest letter we received states that we must maintain strict records on each individual deer and if any of the deer dies, we must notify one of their approved vets within 24 hours of that death for them to come out and test the body for diseases (I'm guessing a pretty costly expense). All deaths must be accounted for.



I can understand if we had our deer in a little 2 acre pen...but how are we supposed to keep track of every dead deer in our pen. Our buck pen alone is about 60 acres...half of which is a wooded area. Our doe pen has about 2 acres of woods in it. Sometimes we don't find the bodies for days...if ever depending on where they died. If they die in the middle of the field, that's no issue...we've always been right on top of burying them, but I don't think they'll comply with my wishes if I ask them all to crawl out into the field to die.



Can any of you Ohio deer farmers help shed some light on this? It can't be as bad as the letters make things sound since from what I've seen most of you folks are of the consensus that this was a pleasant change.



Appreciate the input!
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 04:04 AM   #2
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
WI farms have been testing every dead deer since day one. Breeding facilities don't have the size of pens your talking about around WI though. Sounds like your pen sizes will need to be changed to allow you to adhere to the regulations. Yes there are additional costs involved with the process as well. Again WI farms have incurred these costs for years and years as well.

Dispite the costs and regulations Ag is still much better than the DNR because Ag isn't against us raising deer where the DNR hates we raise deer and would rather close us all down.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 04:58 AM   #3
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota
We always have been under these requirements in Minnesota, and we are under the dept. of Ag. It is impossible to raise deer in large pens, and comply with our requirements.



Gary Olson
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 04:59 AM   #4
 
  Jul 2010
  petersburg, Michigan
Same here in Michigan Roger. If not even more so. Dept of Ag is for sure more "KNOWLEDGEABLE" and Farmer Friendly!!
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 07:24 AM   #5
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep
Yes it is best to be under the regs of the livestock health people. But over regulation to this point is absurd. This forces the producer to stay small by making him spend money on little pens. It's a fact it doesn't matter how small you have a pen you will miss an animal in July dead in the tall grass and it will be rotten when you find it and not testable. With the new Federal rules to maintain your CWD statics you will now be required to submit two live animals from your herd for CWD testing to maintain your status level, of course these animals will be Killed to get these tests done. Our industry has accepted any and all of these absurd requests for health testing issues just to prove we have healthy animals to the public and our critics. None of this extra testing has helped the producer prove this to the public. This has worked in favor of our critics as our costs of production are skyrocking. These extra absurd requirements also make the producer stay smaller in size again an advanatage to our critics but again less land does increases our production costs. Our industry has fallen into a trap from the DNR and critics which has always been the agenda to hurt the industry and get rid of us. All this testing is just to make animal movement slow down. Animal wellfare has never been the goal from these people, ellimination of this industry is the goal.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 08:24 AM   #6
 
  Jul 2010
  petersburg, Michigan
Jack the only thing I would change in your post is the word "Submit". I think maybe "Sacrifice" is more appropiate. Two perfectly healthy animals. People that don't know read this and may assume that we get the animals back after testing. Trust me that people outside of Deer Farming are reading this forum also. So many think that we throw up a pen...put deer in it and start making deposits at the bank.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 08:32 AM   #7
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep & Alaskan dahl sheep
Very true, sacrifice two perfectly good live animals is cruel just to maintain a status in the CWD program. Then the producer has to stand that money loss also. Like I said absurd rules in fact abusive and inhumane.
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Old Aug 30th 2012, 03:04 PM   #8
 
  Nov 2010
  Lanesboro, Minnesota
Well said Jack !!

In Minnesota our [few] preserves have to tag, test, and inventory 100% of the deer. An impossible task. But there are several DNR controlled preserves that do none of this. They just buy hunting tags and run wild deer in the pens. The law says that all " captive cervid must be registered at the Board of animal health and abide by their rules". When I asked the head of the DNR why they didn't follow the same rules we had to live by, they said they were exempt. Even though they were behind a high fence, they where still considered wild deer. He also said that possession of the deer did not give the land owner ownership. ???????? Why the double standards?



Gary Olson

507-269-9791
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Old Aug 31st 2012, 02:37 AM   #9
 
  Aug 2012
  morrow county
here is a highlight of new ag cwd laws; this one i didnt really understand,nor did kristina baker the ag person i talked to...

herds with less than 10 head must test deaths of deer 365 days old or older for cwd.herds with 11 or more heads or more must annually test 30% or 30 deaths whichever is less...can someone light be shed on just what this means.

i did however find out that cwd testing of ther deer will cost $33.00.there is auction in dalton ohio at this time and dept of ag's kristina baker will be there.

there are other rules that were pretty straight forward.all ohio deer farms got a copy of these new rules.



the dnr is also flat refusing to do new farm pen inspections.i talked to chief scott zody and he stated he had no clue as to why dnr is not inspecting new pens and was going to find out why,i have not heard back from him.i know why,they mad as hell they lost main control over the deer farms.it is pretty simple for the dnr to come out and walk around the pen and in all their knowlage declare the pen empty of wild deer and that no capitive deer can get out or no state owned wild deer can get in.that is pretty simple to do and i cannot understand why it's so hard for them.

between the 2(dnr/dept of ag)i think this move was not thought out well at all by either side and yes there are sides in this case.

all these things should have been addressed before there was any type of vote in ohio house or senate.but there was no forward thinking and now the left hand has no clue as to what the right hand may be doing or can do.
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Old Aug 31st 2012, 04:44 AM   #10
 
  Apr 2009
  northeast Ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio whitetails
here is a highlight of new ag cwd laws; this one i didnt really understand,nor did kristina baker the ag person i talked to...

herds with less than 10 head must test deaths of deer 365 days old or older for cwd.herds with 11 or more heads or more must annually test 30% or 30 deaths whichever is less...can someone light be shed on just what this means.

i did however find out that cwd testing of ther deer will cost $33.00.there is auction in dalton ohio at this time and dept of ag's kristina baker will be there.

there are other rules that were pretty straight forward.all ohio deer farms got a copy of these new rules.


Do you know if this is for all farms or just farms not in the cwd program?
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Old Aug 31st 2012, 07:38 AM   #11
 
  Aug 2012
  morrow county
that is for farms that have over 11 head and are not in the ohio cwd program.looks like not much has changed for farms on the ohio cwd program.
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Old Sep 1st 2012, 08:57 PM   #12
 
  Jun 2010
  Piqua, OH
Thanks everyone for the input...here is what I've gathered from the new laws. I believe they are pushing for testing of all deer whether they're in the CWD program or not. The new requirements are probably great for the small deer farms who are raising deer on 5 acres in small pens where the deer are constantly walking around in the mud and tracking through their own crap and being moved all over the state to various hunting preserves. It'll help bring up the quality of care for the deer and shut down the farms that are only in it for the money with no regard for the well being of the deer.



For the nicer farms such as ours (last year we were visited twice by officers from the Ohio Division of Wildlife during the course of an investigation they were doing who informed me that in their opinion, we have one of the nicest deer farms in the state), the new requirements are impossible to adhere to and will eventually lead to long, drawn out battles with the ODA. The annual testing is a pain in the butt, the monitoring of all our deer is impossible without downsizing our pens (and we're not going to downsize our pens--this is a hobby not a business anymore. We WANT our deer to be able to roam all over the property), transporting them on the rare occasion that we want to cut the herd back a little bit looks to be really strict, etc. In my opinion, these laws were passed by congress pressured by animal rights activists who knew this would force the larger farms to shut down. Eventually, they'll slowly tighten the rules up to the point where the smaller farms will have to throw in the towel as well...or they'll make it expensive enough that there's no longer any money to be made in the deer trade.



I've spoken to two Ohio deer farmers now...one has sold off his entire herd, the other has a buyer lined up and will be selling them off in the next 2 weeks.



And as of yesterday, we made the decision to do the same. It's really sad it's come down to this...I've been running the deer farm for nearly 7 years now and there's nothing more enjoyable than going out in those fields and having all the deer come walking up to you for treats...or raising fawns up every spring....bringing your friends and their children out to see deer up close and personal. Definitely an experience I'll never forget.



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Old Sep 2nd 2012, 02:43 AM   #13
 
  Aug 2012
  Waynesville, Ohio
Laws, Acts, and Legislation

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/b...?ID=129_HB_389



I don't know if this will help but here is the law
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Old Sep 25th 2012, 10:48 PM   #14
 
  Jun 2010
  Piqua, OH
Okay, so we were in the process of selling off all our deer and our buyer's backed out on us...we're still probably going to sell off almost everything, but we're discussing the possibility of hanging onto a few deer or if we can't get the herd sold off before the new laws going into effect, keeping what doesn't sell for one more year.



Can anybody in Ohio explain how the testing will work for deer that are NOT currently in the CWD program? How do they test the deer? Tranquilize and draw blood or what?



Also, as I mentioned...our buck pen is currently around 70+ acres, 30 of which is woods. If a deer dies and we don't find it within 24 hours...or don't find it at all until we manage to catch them all in a pen to do a headcount weeks later, how do we handle that kind of situation? Do they send in a vet to do more testing or what?



The letter we received was pretty vague...and trying to read their "legal speak" in the actual law is pretty much impossible for someone who's not an attorney or politician by profession.



Thanks for any clarification you can give me on this...



Edit:

Okay, so from the reading I'm doing...there are no CWD tests for live deer, but the letter we got said we need to have 30 deer or 30% (whichever is smaller) of our population tested annually??? I'm confused...
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Old Sep 26th 2012, 03:18 AM   #15
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshirej
Okay, so we were in the process of selling off all our deer and our buyer's backed out on us...we're still probably going to sell off almost everything, but we're discussing the possibility of hanging onto a few deer or if we can't get the herd sold off before the new laws going into effect, keeping what doesn't sell for one more year.



Can anybody in Ohio explain how the testing will work for deer that are NOT currently in the CWD program? How do they test the deer? Tranquilize and draw blood or what?



Also, as I mentioned...our buck pen is currently around 70+ acres, 30 of which is woods. If a deer dies and we don't find it within 24 hours...or don't find it at all until we manage to catch them all in a pen to do a headcount weeks later, how do we handle that kind of situation? Do they send in a vet to do more testing or what?



The letter we received was pretty vague...and trying to read their "legal speak" in the actual law is pretty much impossible for someone who's not an attorney or politician by profession.



Thanks for any clarification you can give me on this...



Edit:

Okay, so from the reading I'm doing...there are no CWD tests for live deer, but the letter we got said we need to have 30 deer or 30% (whichever is smaller) of our population tested annually??? I'm confused...


No live test...You either kill them.Hunter kills, Whatever..They dont care how or why but yes.They have to have the head to test. Its a freakin joke what their doing!!
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