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Old Oct 19th 2015, 10:46 AM   #1
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
I want to see folks stay in the deer business. Some of the methods used to protect a bucks semen price seem to blur ethical boundaries and I believe have facilitated the early exit of some great folk from the deer business. Are some folks waiting for the next rich sucker to come along? I cannot see how people can justify spending over $1000 on a straw of semen. Could someone explain the economics of $1000 + semen straws to me? If folks better understand the economics of this starting out, they will probably be deer farmers longer. I see words like extremely limited, sold out last year, hot, consistently, production and etc. which tine is hot, what tine am I going to get consistently if I spring and buy the semen. There are some tines I certainly do NOT want bred into my doe lines. I have been in the deer business for a couple of decades and have never been more confused by folks semen marketing.
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 12:02 PM   #2
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer
Bell1054001445280413



I want to see folks stay in the deer business. Some of the methods used to protect a bucks semen price seem to blur ethical boundaries and I believe have facilitated the early exit of some great folk from the deer business. Are some folks waiting for the next rich sucker to come along? I cannot see how people can justify spending over $1000 on a straw of semen. Could someone explain the economics of $1000 + semen straws to me? If folks better understand the economics of this starting out, they will probably be deer farmers longer. I see words like extremely limited, sold out last year, hot, consistently, production and etc. which tine is hot, what tine am I going to get consistently if I spring and buy the semen. There are some tines I certainly do NOT want bred into my doe lines. I have been in the deer business for a couple of decades and have never been more confused by folks semen marketing.




Yeah buy a straw for a grand and get 2 grand for the buck that straw made...In 3 years from now of course.
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 12:21 PM   #3
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep


Funny thing I just had a conversation with a new person in the business from Florida.* They were going to buy very expensive semen in hope of being in the genetic game.


I explained that are real market is harvest bucks and if they could raise 170 to 250 typical bucks they would be producing what 90% of our hunting clients want deer to be.* If they produced them at two years old maybe three they would make money.* That the big genetic game was made to get new people in the hopes they would be one of these people.* I said our industry will be run by our harvest clients and what they want to harvest and put on their wall.* The rest of this is more like a pyramid game with new people coming in to support the over priced genetic antler market.* At what point is what is on the head of whitetail inhumane genetic enhancement with antlers.* My opinion is we are there now so stop making them bigger for the sake of the deer.
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 12:58 PM   #4
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
Well there was a time when entering with intentions of selling in the breeding market was a reasonable idea. Heck I did it and did pretty well for it. However those days are gone and folks need to just forget about those ideas.

I also at certain times did sell semen that had limited availability. I said that AND meant it also. Some say it and then sell as much as they can/could. I also price protected my semen and stock. Meaning I didn't make deals on the side. What I told one person was the price everyone was told. And if I kept prices high it was to protect those who had already invested in my stuff.

Again though, those days are over. Now if I say I have semen to sell the price is set at what is reasonable in this market and I will sell as many straws as I can. For instance my buck Ruben. Straws are $500 each. You want one or you want the whole collection, I will sell them all. I am straight forward and honest. Those who have read my posts over the years know I am a speak it as I see it person. What you get is real and true. I don't have time to try and remember what story I told to who. Tell the truth and it is easy to remember.
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 01:13 PM   #5
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
I have tried to only sell to other farmers based on the buyers chance of recovering their investment in the terminal marketplace. I think this has always been the truth. As Jack stated the breeder market is pretty much a pyramid scheme and has always been. I have never been a fan of Amway. Chuckles
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 05:00 PM   #6
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
I have a 2 year old typical that is out of Queens Heir and an Easy Does it doe. He is 200 inches and 26 inches wide and a completely typical 12 point frame. He has Jake the Dream Buck in his pedigree 3 times, Texas Queen 2 times, Easy Does It and Max Dream. He covered 18 does at age one and still grew a perfectly matched typical 12 points at age 2. This deer also survived in South Alabama where midge flies are constant from July thru October with out being sprayed or treated in anyway. I have never had a northern deer survive on my farm. What is a fair value for semen on this deer? How would you market it? Is it worth $500 a straw?
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 05:23 PM   #7
 Jack's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Vaughn, MT 59487

Cervid: mule deer,whitetail,elk,goats,bighorn & stone sheep


Brett,


Put it on W.E. and see if people want it.* I had a very nice mule deer there at 800 cause that is what I thought it was worth.* Guess I was the only one who thought that.* After two weeks with no bids this time of year I dropped it to 400.* But if I don't get that I'll use it for myself as I don't have that much of it.* I*do sell*mule deer semen at 100 and 200 for those that want to cross whitetail to and*at those prices*that is what*sells for me.
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 05:53 PM   #8
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
Jack

I ordered a camera today! When it comes I will put it on the W.E. I am just curious what it is worth? I am not expecting a high price but I would not sale it for less than $250 a straw. I would just use it. He has exactly what I like in a deer.
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Old Oct 19th 2015, 07:11 PM   #9
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Brett,

Here is a heavy 2 year old 6 by 6 Thunderstorm son that is north of 200" typical. He is no fluke because his brother was 30 + inches bigger typical at 2. He will breed 30 doe here this fall. We are simply breeding him to our doe in order to supply our hunting preserve. It sounds like you have a great buck. I hope he will provide you with great sons.
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Old Oct 20th 2015, 04:20 AM   #10
 Freedom Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Feb 2011
  Blair County, PA

Cervid: Whitetails
Bell1054001445280413



I want to see folks stay in the deer business. Some of the methods used to protect a bucks semen price seem to blur ethical boundaries and I believe have facilitated the early exit of some great folk from the deer business. Are some folks waiting for the next rich sucker to come along? I cannot see how people can justify spending over $1000 on a straw of semen. Could someone explain the economics of $1000 + semen straws to me? If folks better understand the economics of this starting out, they will probably be deer farmers longer. I see words like extremely limited, sold out last year, hot, consistently, production and etc. which tine is hot, what tine am I going to get consistently if I spring and buy the semen. There are some tines I certainly do NOT want bred into my doe lines. I have been in the deer business for a couple of decades and have never been more confused by folks semen marketing.




JONATHAN *YOUR RIGHT AND I'LL TELL YOU MY STORY- *YOU KNOW A GREAT FRIEND OF MINE THAT HAS BEEN IN DEER A LONG TIME. *I MYSELF WAS GOING DOWN THE ROAD OF "VERY LIMITED" / "ONLY TEN AND THE PRICE GOES UP" AND $1,000 A STRAW BUT IT WASNT THAT I WAS TRYING TO BE DISHONEST OR TRYING TO PULL THE WOOL OVER THEIR EYES I JUST THOUGHT (BEING NI EVE) AND HE TOLD ME ADVICE, I THANK HIM FOR STILL. *HE SAID I'LL DO BETTER FINACIALLY AND MAKE MORE FRIENDS IN THE INDUSTRY WHO WILL GET YOU MORE BUSINESS IF I DROP TO THE $500-$750 RANGE, SELL AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AND LET EVERYONE KNOW YOUR NOT LIMITING IT, AND BE HAPPY WITH EVERY STRAW YOU SELL CAUSE IT COULD BE YOUR LAST.


*


WELL I DID THAT, I OFFERED THE ONE GUY ON WHITETAIL EXCHANGE THAT PAID $1,000 FOR ONE STRAW I OFFERED HIM A SECOND AND THE ONLY BUCK I WILL BE "LIMITING" IS UNLEASHED SEMEN CAUSE I'LL NEVER GET ANYMORE AND DONT NEED TO SELL IT I'LL USE IT MYSELF RATHER THAN SELL IT FOR CHEAP *AND I THANK GOD MOST OF ALL BUT THIS YEARS SEMEN MONEY HAS MADE ME ENOUGH TO PAY FOR FEED FOR MY ANIMALS FOR THE WHOLE NEXT YEAR. *THATS AWESOME CAUSE I SHOULD BE ABLE TO BREAK EVEN OR BE OUT AHEAD WITHOUT MUCH WORRY.


*


BUT THAT BEING SAID I KNOW I AM VERY LUCKY , VERY VERY LUCKY THAT IT HAS PAID OFF THIS YEAR LIKE IT HAS - THAT BEING MOST PART CAUSE OF HIGH DOLLAR SEMEN AND GLADIATOR XTREME *NOONE CAN GET THOSE NAMES IN HIS PEDIGREE FOR THAT CHEAP BUT PEOPLE WHO CANT AFFORD $5,000/STRAW SEMEN CAN NOW HAVE NAMES LIKE GLADIATOR, BAMBI 20-28, BUCKY, AND PA GERONIMO WITH HIM FOR $750


*


A GUY ON THESE FORUMS WHICH HE CAN SAY WHO HE IS IF HE WANTS TO ASKED ME ON FACEBOOK IF I THOUGHT HE SHOULD DRAW HIS BUCK HE HAD AND HERE IS WHAT I TOLD HIM


*


SEMEN MARKET IS FLOODED *IF YOU CAN PUT HIM OUT THERE AND GET TEN COMMITMENTS AND HAVE THEM PUT A DEPOSIT ON STRAWS THEN HES WORTH DRAWING TO SELL OTHERWISE IF YOUR GOING TO DRAW HIM JUST AS SECURITY FOR YOURSELF (BECAUSE ULTIMATELY YOU HAVE THE FAITH IN HIM, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE IT TO ANYONE ELSE, YOU KNOW IN YOUR HEART THAT HES THE ONE)


*


OTHER ADVICE TO HIM WAS USE FACEBOOK FOR YOUR MARKETING *- YOU CAN REACH SO MANY NEW PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THAT'S WHERE 95% OF MY SEMEN SALES CAME FROM AND IT COST ME NO COMMISSION, NO FEES, AND ITS PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW ME FROM ADAM
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Old Oct 20th 2015, 04:57 AM   #11
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Congrats Travis,

You have done a good job marketing your bucks semen.
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Old Oct 20th 2015, 04:26 PM   #12
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer
Bell1054081445289205

I have tried to only sell to other farmers based on the buyers chance of recovering their investment in the terminal marketplace. I think this has always been the truth. As Jack stated the breeder market is pretty much a pyramid scheme and has always been. I have never been a fan of Amway. Chuckles


I have to tell you, I am rather offended by the pyramid scheme comment. I did not take part in crooked tactics. I set my farm prices or offered animals at auction. I never forced anyone to buy my stuff. Many folks who bought from me have made money as a direct result of what they purchased. A few years ago there was a true breeder market. It was driven by supply and demand. New folks getting in, old farms updating their genetics, and farms increasing the size of their herds. When that demand fell off so did the breeder market. It is unfortunate that some bought just before the collapse. However that does not make it a scheme.
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Old Oct 20th 2015, 04:48 PM   #13
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
Bell1054141445310668

Brett,

Here is a heavy 2 year old 6 by 6 Thunderstorm son that is north of 200" typical. He is no fluke because his brother was 30 + inches bigger typical at 2. He will breed 30 doe here this fall. We are simply breeding him to our doe in order to supply our hunting preserve. It sounds like you have a great buck. I hope he will provide you with great sons.i like him
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Old Oct 20th 2015, 07:33 PM   #14
 Four Seasons Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Oct 2009
  upstate ny

Cervid: Whitetail Deer


It takes more than names to make a straw of semen have any kind of value. Many,Many big named bucks were not and are not producing. It takes upwards of 5 years *to be able to say your buck is producing enough to cover the cost of the semen. 200in 3 year olds are no longer a good valued deer. If you cant show 200 at 2 in todays world its tough to ask good money for a straw. That buck also had better be a good looking buck with frame and tines. * Anything else and your better off just live breeding your own bucks.


Less and less farms are breeding for paper any longer. Names pay squat for most farms and some names thrown out there have produced squat yet some keep trying to push those bucks. *
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Old Oct 21st 2015, 03:11 AM   #15
 Freedom Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Feb 2011
  Blair County, PA

Cervid: Whitetails
Four Seasons Whitetails1054341445398385



It takes more than names to make a straw of semen have any kind of value. Many,Many big named bucks were not and are not producing. It takes upwards of 5 years *to be able to say your buck is producing enough to cover the cost of the semen. 200in 3 year olds are no longer a good valued deer. If you cant show 200 at 2 in todays world its tough to ask good money for a straw. That buck also had better be a good looking buck with frame and tines. * Anything else and your better off just live breeding your own bucks.


Less and less farms are breeding for paper any longer. Names pay squat for most farms and some names thrown out there have produced squat yet some keep trying to push those bucks. *




MIKE I KNOW WHAT YOUR SAYING ABOUT HOW PRODUCTION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN NAMES, AND FOR MY FARM I AGREE FOR MY BUCKS BUT....


*


I WAS VERY SURPRISED AT HOW WELL GLADIATOR XTREME DID IN SEMEN SALES ON PEDIGREE ALONE, *HIS LEG WAS IN BAD SHAPE HE GREW MORE TRASH AND LESS WIDE *HE SCORED 207"@2 BUT HE WASNT PRETTY AND ILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT IT BUT UP TILL YESTERDAY HE BROUGHT ME IN $14,500 IN SEMEN AND I HAVE A FEW MORE INTERESTED THAT ARE TO LET ME KNOW THIS WEEK


*


I'LL TAKE THAT EVERY YEAR (ALTHOUGH I WONT BUDGET FOR THAT TO HAPPEN NOT AT ALL CAUSE I GOT LUCKY) *THAT PAYS FOR MY FEED BILL TO FEED ALL MY ANIMALS AND THEN SHOOTERS ARE 100% PROFIT, WITH RESULTS LIKE THAT I CAN KEEP MY HEAD ABOVE WATER
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