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Old May 28th 2014, 11:28 AM   #1
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer


Just something I have thought about a few times and decided to throw out the topic and see what kind of reaction it creates. This is NOT aimed at any specific farm, person, or selling site! Just a general discussion.


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There are thousands of bucks that have been collected over the years and many more straws of semen that have been sold and used. Some with guarantees and some with none. Straws collected and processed by many, many different people as well. Storage and handling manners also vary greatly from place to place and person to person.


I have seen first hand many of the horror stories of collection, processing, handling and storage. And I have heard many other stories from others as well. A straws very quality and as a result ones AI conception rate depends on each and every step of these various processes. ( I have folks/farms/storage places I wouldn't trust with a dixie straw for drinking soda out of a glass with much less a straw of semen )


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I have bought many straws over the years, some with and some without a guarantee. For* instance I have purchased straws that I was told, "If you don't get any fawns from this straw and you split it into 2 does I will give you another straw."


There are many ways a guarantee can be given if one is given at all, and the above is an example of one I have had.


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That said, I have used straws and got nothing from the straw and there was a guarantee. But in the end I got nothing as a replacement nor as a substitute. Sometimes I got nothing because I simply didn't contact anyone and specifically say, "Hey I got nothing from such and such straw." Sometimes I did mention it to the person once or even multiple times either in person, via email, or by phone and still got nothing. And on another side I have used straws that there was no guarantee on and when I mentioned in passing that I had an issue it was replaced no questions asked.


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I am wondering how others have dealt with straws that turned up bad or simply produced nothing for them?


I get my not saying anything to them about a failed straw is my issue and not the sellers. Sometimes I just feel awkward telling people I want something from them. But if I did mention it and got nothing whats up with that?


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1. If you buy a straw do YOU require a guarantee or it is a no deal?


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2. If you have an issue with a straw sold with a guarantee do you ALWAYS contact the seller?


(The above assumes the seller is the buck owner or said he/she had additional straws of said buck)


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3. Have you ever been stiffed by a seller who had given you a guarantee?


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4. Do you only buy based on the fact a straw was:


*** A. Collected by OR not collected by a specific person?


* * B. Processed by OR not processed by a specific person?


* * C. Stored only at OR not stored at a specific place?


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Now my intention of this is NOT to start a pi$$ing match, a bitch session or give someone a platform to hype themselves or their friends or bucks. I hope all names will remain left out of the discussion.


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I myself will answer like this,


1. I never have but effective immediately I will.


2. I did contact a seller on some previous occasions and not on other occasions. In the future I will try to always contact them.


3. Yes I have and should have raised more fuss I guess.


4. On all 3 options (A,B,C) I have not made any factor a deal breaker in the past. Moving forward I WILL make it a deal breaker though. I have had issues with all 3 options despite others saying they have had good luck. Enough to make it not a coincidence.
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Old May 28th 2014, 12:02 PM   #2
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Roger,

We don't guarantee anything from our farm . We never advertise the integrity of anything we do. We just do our best to do everything within reason to help those who have purchased semen or anything from us be successful and I try to buy from those who I have confidence will treat me the same way. If I feel a buck is worthy of pursuing, I spend the time to get to know the individual who owns the buck. If I feel they will treat me as they would want to be treated I will buy their semen. Earl Souva is the only person we let collect our bucks because I know he will not let semen from one of our bucks into the market that isn't of excellent quality which could tarnish our reputation.
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Old May 28th 2014, 12:36 PM   #3
 Rocky Top whitetails's Avatar
 
  Feb 2013
  Narvon, PA
IndependenceRanch925501401305289



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1. If you buy a straw do YOU require a guarantee or it is a no deal? so far i have not required a Guarantee but i try and buy from people who i know will Treat me right


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2. If you have an issue with a straw sold with a guarantee do you ALWAYS contact the seller? i find it hard to do this, an yet i know if i were the seller i would want to be contacted


(The above assumes the seller is the buck owner or said he/she had additional straws of said buck)


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3. Have you ever been stiffed by a seller who had given you a guarantee? No not that i had a guarantee on , but i had some bad Quality semen


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4. Do you only buy based on the fact a straw was:*** i never had any problem with this


*** A. Collected by OR not collected by a specific person?


* * B. Processed by OR not processed by a specific person?


* * C. Stored only at OR not stored at a specific place?


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Old May 28th 2014, 01:01 PM   #4
 
  Jan 2011
  Houston, Texas


Roger,


1. If you buy a straw do YOU require a guarantee or it is a no deal?


* If it is a $100 straw from whitetail exchange i don't expect a guarantee.* If it is $500 or $5000 etc I would not buy without a guarantee.*


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2. If you have an issue with a straw sold with a guarantee do you ALWAYS contact the seller?


(The above assumes the seller is the buck owner or said he/she had additional straws of said buck)


AI'd 4 does using 2 straws and were at 208 days so I suspect I will be making a couple calls when I get back home.


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3. Have you ever been stiffed by a seller who had given you a guarantee?


Will find out this year.


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4. Do you only buy based on the fact a straw was:


*** A. Collected by OR not collected by a specific person? I'm new to the business but I'm working towards specific people for A,B&C.


* * B. Processed by OR not processed by a specific person?


* * C. Stored only at OR not stored at a specific place?


*


Slightly off topic, but I bought deer herd from: Samuel King, Wilmer Martin, Pete Miller, Daniel Brand, Josh Newton and buying a couple fawns from Shannon Thiex this year.* All of them have been very good to me thus far and I suspect they are equally as fair with their semen sells as well.*
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Old May 28th 2014, 01:18 PM   #5
 
  Apr 2009
  Alabaster, Alabama
I bought semen rights on a buck last year from one of the well known guys on this forum. He sent the first five straws of the buck in question. We opted out on the remainder and received five straws of our second pick buck. Well, the first five were from a totally different buck then we had rights to, they had a very similar name so we wrongly assumed it was a misprint and the five from the second buck were all dead! I spoke with this person face to face about it and he told me he knew the straws from the second buck were for farm use only but thought they would work anyway, but didn't bother to tell us. After discovering that the first straws were not the buck we bought rights to I've tried numerous times to call and text with no results. This guy offers all kinds of guarantees but trust me, he has done nothing to honor his guarantee to us.
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Old May 28th 2014, 02:11 PM   #6
 Bell's Avatar
 
  Apr 2014
  Greensburg, IN
Semen quality is pretty evident under " first fawns of 2014 topic"
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Old May 28th 2014, 03:09 PM   #7
 
  Jun 2012
  Blue Rapids, KS


THRUTH : Did you look at the Semen you used under a microscope?


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I believe in many situations that he semen quality could be to blame. But how can you rule out other factors if you don't look at the semen under microscope. Like how good of heat the doe was in, stress of the doe, the man doing the AIing. I did my own AIing for the first time last fall at the age of 16, did 4 does, I can tell already that I got 2 out of the 4 does bred(their bagged up are going to fawn here next week). I had absolutely zero prior knowledge of how to AI deer besides the info I got on the internet. I didn't look at the semen on a microscope, so i'm not blaming the straws for no conception of the 2 does that didn't take to AI. But I did notice one of the does (1 that didn't take) didn't show the strong heat that the others showed.


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So what i'm saying is does everyone look at their semen they will be using under the microscope before using it.?* If not I don't see how you can 100% blame the semen you used or the person you received the semen from and expect him to replace the straw unless he guarantees the semen?
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Old May 28th 2014, 04:44 PM   #8
RyanM84
Guest
 
  


I bought a straw of a buck and stuck it into 3 does only 1 doe hit and she gave me 1 fawn... How should I feel about this? All my other straws hit in all my other does that fall we AId with Flees G36 into 3 does all hit, Abilene into 3 does and all hit, Hydro Ax into 2 does and all hit but this 1 straw only hit with 1 doe and 1 fawn is all I got... That straw cost $5000...
 
Old May 28th 2014, 04:59 PM   #9
 Show Me Racks's Avatar
 
  Aug 2012
  Billings, MO
1. It would depend on the price of the straw if I wanted a guarantee.

2. We had a straw that was actually half full. We contacted the seller with a pic immediately and were told he would make it right. Good thing we had a few extra straws off the farm, but we basically paid to breed to our buck. We did not receive a new straw but I am sure a phone call will fix that.

3. I have been stiffed a few times, once while bidding online at an auction, which I will not do again, and once on a fawn I won on the forums last year. I kept getting the line that they where waiting on DNA to make sure of the sire. I finally quit calling. Maybe I should have pursued it more, but I felt like it was never going to happen. Not quite what the question was, but similar.

4. I have not worried about who collected the semen in the past, but that might be a question I ask in the future.


With that being said, last fall we used sexed semen on our girls. We had the does in great shape, low stress for AI, everything looked great. We hit 30% on AI with one of the fawns being a doe fawn. This is not our first experience with sexed semen. It has been good in the past, probably 70%. We were told semen collection was great at time of collection and time of AI. I am not sure what happened but I am definately rethinking sexed semen and Lap AI. Many of you contacted me about semen from this buck. I am not willing to offer it as that is not how I want to do business. I will be in touch with you to see if you would be interested in conventional semen.
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Old May 28th 2014, 05:34 PM   #10
 coldspring whitetails's Avatar
 
  Feb 2012
  Manheim, PA
I have never had an issue with semen.I feel it is really hard for a breeder to put a guarantee on his semen. So many things can happen from the time it leaves his control. If there is an obvious problem I feel it is only right for the breeder to make it right.I have only been splitting the straws twice and I am very happy with the results. All five took this year!
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Old May 28th 2014, 05:44 PM   #11
 South Alabama Whitetails's Avatar
 
  Jul 2009
  Deer Park, Alabama

Cervid: whitetails
As long as people complain but refuse to name names nothing will change!
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Old May 28th 2014, 06:44 PM   #12
 Whitetail Sanctuary's Avatar
 
  May 2009
  Chillicothe, Missouri


I don't know why anyone would NOT give another straw ?.........................Period


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Sure the seller paid to have it collected,feed and cared for the buck..............................Even if the straw was $10,000 a straw on the market..................What is the seller really out ? I would think it would be better to replace the straw than have a buyer who lost out on a year of breeding ?


And what does "Limited to X number straws" mean ? *.....................Really ?*


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Just my 2 cents
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Old May 28th 2014, 06:44 PM   #13
 IndependenceRanch's Avatar
 
  Apr 2009
  Edgar, WI

Cervid: deer


Well this thread went off in a direction I was hoping it wouldn't go. Sorry I brought it up.
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