Shooter or Breeder Where is the Line????

Where do you draw the line in today's market? What would be a decent breeder and what is better off as a shooter? As an example the following buck is estimated at 215"-225" , is 4 years old, is a son of Doc 253@3 and the mother is out of Flees Butkus 251@3. Is shooter or a breeder??

I think the line is where you decide to cross. In my pen, he would be a backup breeder, but dont have the width i want, but i would give his genitics a shot, but if he didnt produce what i wanted i would shoot him, dead! the breeder market is narrowing my thinking.dont care what the genitics are,But i am voting shooter,Dc

I voted shooter looking at the deer. for me the most important part of the decision was left out of the question...... what has he got on the ground?

He's throwing 130-160 class two year olds. Nothing exceptional just solid deer.

He would be a breeder for me. If he is throwing 130-160 2 yr olds that would be good for my program to produce shooters for me.

Everyone's breeding program is different ...

Also...It also depends on what doe's you would put him with...

Do you have doe throwing wide deer...If so you may consider breeding him to them...What did other deer do with that bloodline did they blow up at 5 or 6 if so don't make them a shooter at 2...

My goal is breed deer I can get rid of at Two or Three and nice and wide and heavy...Anything not contributing to that is a shooter...Now ...If I had a doe that produced wide low tines I may consider breeding with him...He is nice...

It all depends on what you want...

The less time I have to feed them the better...

I look at Flees website at the deer they call shooters and could drive my self nuts...(and my boyfriend)I don't know how many times I said OMG they shot that!!!

I'm with DC on this one . If he were in my pen right now today he'd be a back up breeder thats for sure. There are a few guys who'd say ANYTHING out of a Butkus doe is a breeder but would you buy semen from him ? To me you got to ask yourself would I buy a straw of semen from him to AI a doe . If your answer is no , then he's a shooter. The semen market is flooded with bucks from 300 on up high and wide with some real nice pedigree's so I guess I wouldn't buy a straw from him so to me he's a shooter /back up buck at the best , but thats my opinion nothing more . I had a good ol buck that was 220 at 3 but narrow like this one and probably even narrower . I thought to myself would I AI to him and my answer was heck no , so I quit using him all together . This is just my opinion nothing more . There surely are many factors to consider thats for sure .

four point on the one side = shooter

Again, it comes down to which market are you in? Are you only raising 10-20 deer or do you breed 50 a year? Do you have your own hunting area to turn these deer into or are you just a seller? If you're trying to sell breeding quality animals then no, he's not a breeder, not even with a pedigree like that. Like wooden said, would you buy a straw of semen for a "breeding" program? If your in the shooter market to sell or release then youre on the right track. You've bred him since a yearling so you've gotten 3 years worth of buck fawns out of him you can sell as shooters at 3 and since then you've probably improved your genetics as well so I would say shoot/sell him now. Breed his does and sell them at 2 as release does or keep adding genetics to them as well.



Its really a very hard question to answer and the answers unique to each situation.

If your in the shooter market he should produce very nice shooters. However I honestly feel like in todays market he is a shooter. But if you don't AI and he is your biggest buck and best producer then he has to be your breeder. I hope that made sense.



Nick Biser

Team Biser Whitetails

As a buyer i would say shooter and as a seller i would say breeder. THis deer is only worth what someone will pay for it. If you can sell it as a breeder, get the extra profit. There are alot of people that would use that buck as a breeder.

This is one of the hardest questions to answer for some of the reasons stated already. Many of the posts made already said some very good things to consider, but no one post said it all. There are just SOOOOO many variables involved. And it isn't right for anyone to tell someone else what is right for another person to do. But everyone can share their own thoughts on what they would do for their own herd.



A breeder should have a good pedigree to be used. But that said if all you want is shooters and don't want to sell any of your extra does then who cares if he has a good pedigree or not. As long as he throws good shooter bucks. (Liveoak more or less said the same thing)



Not everyone has the means (dollars wise) to own a "high quality" breeder. And not everyone has the desire to have those sleepless nights thinking about whether or not your big buck in the pen outside is safe.

For some with the money to buy a high quality breeder such as a Rolex, Maxbo, Big Guy, PA Geronimo, Highroller, that works for them.

And then they have to have to emotional strength to house a buck worth that much money.

I personally could NEVER pay the kind of money it takes to have one of those bucks. Heck I could never have spent the kind of money to get the buck I have now. I had to breed my way into him to get one like I have now. (NOT SAYING MINE IS ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE BUCKS I MENTIONED ABOVE) Now I have to find out if I have the emotional strength to house him everyday



But like Nick says only stated a little differently. Not everyone can or wants to do A/I. Some Amish can't do A/I. Some farms don't have the facilities to do A/I as easy as others can. Some just don't want to get into that aspect of the industry. And that is fine, but they then need to have a breeder buck. Now the questions are, how much can they spend?

If they can't "spend" the money on one, what is the biggest buck they have on the property?

Are they after just shooters or do they want to sell the extra does?

How does the buck the person has produce?



I have always said a quality breeder is a buck that throws sons bigger than himself. If a 300" buck only throws 180" sons he should be shot. If a 180" buck throws 200" or 230" sons that look good, he is a breeder buck.

I have always said if you want to sell your extra does then you need a breeder buck with a good pedigree. And to be honest he better have a good look also.

I stay away from anything with 4x4 mainframes. Don't care how big, that is just my opinion.

On my farm that buck is a shooter, but he isn't on my farm. My farm has a set of goals established and those goals aren't the same as some other farms. So each farm has to decide what is right for them.

I think it is all relevant on how far along your deer farm is in breeding deer for large antlers with consistancy. Also relevant are you trying to breed for the breeder market. Most would like to think they are but really are only developed genetically for the shooter market. I personally would not use any two year old or older that was a four point on one side. For that reason I would place him as a shooter. Just my opinion.

I may be relatively "new" in the deer industry (5 years) but I believe the "look" has to get some attention regardless of the bottom-line score. Does he have the look you think the industry is chasing?

Excellent replies! As has been said multiple times there are alot of factors to be figgured in. I know I don't have all the answers. We are pretty much into the shooter market with only a dash of name brands thrown in here and there. If any one has any other angle or view feel free to share.

fars, if you ever figure out all the answers with this deer stuff would you do me a favor and send me a copy of the book your going to write?

If I did try and write a book about all the answers to deer stuff, I think I would have to add a new chapter every year. That book would never end.