I was just wanting everyones input on AI success rates that you have noticed over the years between knocking a deer down 3 times to breed her vs sending through a chute 3 times. Out of all the farms I have visited the majority have a chute and handling facility, however several very successful farms stick to the shoot em with a dart method. Sometimes the chute can be less stressful but i have seen some instances where it would have been alot less stressful to just hit her with a dart. Id like to here the pros and cons and actual success rates. I am wondering if the few extra dollars in drugs and reversals equals out to the number of fawns not born from going through the chute system. Thanks alot in advance!!!
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
I dont think you can argue with that sucess rate.Rick do you dart all three times to put in cidr,take out cidr and then breed?????
Those are awefully good ratios!!! We used the darting method on 8 does last year and only 5 took. I know another farm that was 100% and usually between 80-90% with the dart method. Another farm AIed 32 through the chute last year and he was less than 50% and the ones that did take had alot of singles. This is why im wondering if the chute has something to do with it or not. This is the information Im wanting to see. What else have others noticed?
Joined May 2009
1,166 Posts | 0+
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Those rates are very good. I think it would help more if we had more numbers. If we were talking more in the range of 50 or so animals it would give us a better range of accuracy. Just my input.
Johnny B
Johnny B
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
We AI anywhere from 80 - 100 does each year in the chute. We have been doing it for nearly 10 years this way. We average about 75% or even a little better. If you run your deer through a chute system regularly - for sorting etc. - the stress is much lower because they are accustomed to it. Also, when Dr. Bringans is here, we average about 2-3 minutes per doe actually doing the AI in the chute. That lessens his time, our cost and stress on the doe. It is the only way we would ever do it.
There can be other factors that influence your success as well, like the quality of the semen.
There can be other factors that influence your success as well, like the quality of the semen.
good technique and timing makes them all the same..... we don't tranq just because we have a really calm group of does and temp variations can be from 15C to -25C tranqing colder than -5C can kill a lot of deer from hypothermia so with out being able to order the weather 17 days ahead we even when we are planing to lap AI we are ready to change to cervical if we have to
cervial 90% one year ....55 % the next same semen same vet ??????
lap 100%
so if your going to tranq to Ai why not do lap as long as their out????
cervial 90% one year ....55 % the next same semen same vet ??????
lap 100%
so if your going to tranq to Ai why not do lap as long as their out????
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Using a chute or tranq'ing and also semen quality are only a couple of the variables to the success rate. If you ever sit down with one of the vets who are "pros" at a/i and listen to all the variables involved that could make your success go one way or the other it is actually scary to hear it. It is amazing the industry gets as good of success as it does.
One thing is for sure. You can see the same positive OR negative trends in a farm year after year. And I have listened to many who have tried to narrow down where their negative results are coming from. Few of them have actually ever figured it out.
Some blame it on darting instead of using a chute and vis versa. But yet they make the change and see no better results.
Some blame it on the a/i tech and make the change and see little if any better success from that.
Some blame it on the supply of the drugs or CIDR's used and see little if any changes from that. (Note, this I think was our issue one year and after the change from that place things went back to the positive for us. Apparently that place changed the way the drug was produced due to regulations.)
What kills me is when I hear of the corners that some folks cut during this whole process. I have heard of some folks using CIDR's that were left over from a couple years prior that someone else had sitting around.
Similar thing with drugs. I have heard of 3 or 4 farms all sharing the same vials of drugs. That would be fine if all the farms did their a/i within the same day or 2 maybe. But you aren't supposed to mix up the drugs and have it sitting around for a week or 2 before using it.
Then people wonder why they get poor results, and the first thing they want to do is blame the semen quality.
When I invest good money in a straw of semen why should I cut corners to save $10 or $20 on the CIDR's or the drugs? Just do it correctly right away because you only get one shot for the season.
I think that both tranq'ing and using the chute can work if the herd and techniques used are reasonable. Say tranq'ing for instance. If you have wilder does and have to chase them around to get a dart in them 3 times then odds are now against you. But if darting is as simple as a pail of feed or peanuts and a couple of quick "pop" "pops" with the dart gun or blow dart pipe, then tranq'ing is no big deal.
That said as Jane or Gary above stated if your does are used to a chute system it really is so simple and easy to use. Heck some of our does that have been though the system a couple of times actually just walk right in and stop and wait for the floor to drop. I kid you not. I recall one year the darn floor wouldn't drop when I pulled the cord. She had walked in and stopped. I pulled and pulled again and it was stuck. She turned her head and looked at me as if to say, "hey dude let's get this over with."
I think my point is each and every herd is different. There is no one way is best. You have to find what works best for your own farm and herd temperament. But don't cut corners to save a few dollars. Do it correctly to begin with.
One thing is for sure. You can see the same positive OR negative trends in a farm year after year. And I have listened to many who have tried to narrow down where their negative results are coming from. Few of them have actually ever figured it out.
Some blame it on darting instead of using a chute and vis versa. But yet they make the change and see no better results.
Some blame it on the a/i tech and make the change and see little if any better success from that.
Some blame it on the supply of the drugs or CIDR's used and see little if any changes from that. (Note, this I think was our issue one year and after the change from that place things went back to the positive for us. Apparently that place changed the way the drug was produced due to regulations.)
What kills me is when I hear of the corners that some folks cut during this whole process. I have heard of some folks using CIDR's that were left over from a couple years prior that someone else had sitting around.
Similar thing with drugs. I have heard of 3 or 4 farms all sharing the same vials of drugs. That would be fine if all the farms did their a/i within the same day or 2 maybe. But you aren't supposed to mix up the drugs and have it sitting around for a week or 2 before using it.
Then people wonder why they get poor results, and the first thing they want to do is blame the semen quality.
When I invest good money in a straw of semen why should I cut corners to save $10 or $20 on the CIDR's or the drugs? Just do it correctly right away because you only get one shot for the season.
I think that both tranq'ing and using the chute can work if the herd and techniques used are reasonable. Say tranq'ing for instance. If you have wilder does and have to chase them around to get a dart in them 3 times then odds are now against you. But if darting is as simple as a pail of feed or peanuts and a couple of quick "pop" "pops" with the dart gun or blow dart pipe, then tranq'ing is no big deal.
That said as Jane or Gary above stated if your does are used to a chute system it really is so simple and easy to use. Heck some of our does that have been though the system a couple of times actually just walk right in and stop and wait for the floor to drop. I kid you not. I recall one year the darn floor wouldn't drop when I pulled the cord. She had walked in and stopped. I pulled and pulled again and it was stuck. She turned her head and looked at me as if to say, "hey dude let's get this over with."
I think my point is each and every herd is different. There is no one way is best. You have to find what works best for your own farm and herd temperament. But don't cut corners to save a few dollars. Do it correctly to begin with.
i was blessed last year to have 100% only did 3 does if it wasnt for the help of a few freinds virgil and adam this wouldve never been capable they installed my cidrs pulled them and were there with briggans when he a.i.d. as i wasnt capable of being there all deer were darted once again guys thanks for all your help
I use the chute to put cidirs in and then to pull them out, and then only have to traq.once, when AIing had 75%
We have an AI service and our experience shows a consistently higher rate of conception doing the AI in the chute versus tranqing the does.
rick said:
rick , if i split a straw between 2 deer what are my odds, as if the doe does not take to the straw and takes to the back up buck im out. Is this how it works??????
Have any of you noticed that some genetic lines of does have better success than other lines? I have a theory that it's the way some of them react to the CIDRS. We increased the number of hours between when the CIDR was pulled and we bred them and increased the success rate on certain lines that had a bad track record. Just one more possiable reason for different success rates.
Joined Apr 2009
530 Posts | 0+
West Salem, Ohio
Crocket.... splitting straws is a common practice and the greater number of splits may have an effect on conception rates..... we also never split a straw while doing cervical breeding but some do, I believe success is related to the condition of the doe, the amount of stress she is exposed to and obvioulsy quality of semen how it is handeled and placement
I have all types of bloodlines on my farm. We run them in the chute the first 2 times and then when we AI, which is done Laparoscopically, we run them into the chute and give them a shot to knock them out. Last year we AI'd 46 does and 43 took to AI. Very similar success with same methods for the past 3 years.
