Joined May 2009
1,166 Posts | 0+
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
so far there is only 1 person from Alabama who voted for open borders. Please just let Alabama people vote on this matter. It should be 4 to 1
I see that 7 of the 9 people voting to open the borders is not from Alabama. So how is this an Alabama Poll?
Joined May 2009
1,166 Posts | 0+
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
I guess they would just like to have the chance to do business in Alabama the same as we can in open border states.
Joined Jul 2009
1,215 Posts | 0+
Deer Park, Alabama
I wish there had been one more choice "Not Important". That would be my first choice. The big issue is high fence hunting not borders.
I see some from Alabama choose not to vote. Maybe they are afraid to let others in the industry see were they stand. Like i said before if your borders are closed thats fine just don't sell out of state either. Maybe if some couldn't get in to the auctions or if everyone else in the industry stuck together and refused to buy deer or semen from those with closed borders they would have a different outlook. Just not right to have whole state to yourselves and still want to sell out of state to. Some may not care but evidently some do or they wouldn't be getting a 7 year cwd status in April wich is a crock. I sure hope the industry as a whole does not let this fly. I feel sory for those honest hearted ones who want whats right but are trapped because of a few GREEDY people!!!
Joined Jul 2009
1,215 Posts | 0+
Deer Park, Alabama
Virgil
Most of the deer farmers in Alabama can not sell out of state because the state would not issue a new deer breeders license until about four years ago and we are not 7 year CWD certified. There are some breeders who were license before the ban was put in place by the state that may be CWD tested for 7 years, I do not know if they are or not. I would say most of the deer farmers in Alabama have not been in the business for 7 years but I do not have the exact numbers. I am not arguing for or against the border issue because to me it is not important in the long run. For some people it seems to be highly important on both sides.
Most of the deer farmers in Alabama can not sell out of state because the state would not issue a new deer breeders license until about four years ago and we are not 7 year CWD certified. There are some breeders who were license before the ban was put in place by the state that may be CWD tested for 7 years, I do not know if they are or not. I would say most of the deer farmers in Alabama have not been in the business for 7 years but I do not have the exact numbers. I am not arguing for or against the border issue because to me it is not important in the long run. For some people it seems to be highly important on both sides.
I was refering to a previous post were dream ranch said they were going to have a 7 year status come april of this year. I know how you feel on this matter from previuos post and you seem like a good man that can see were we on the outside are coming from.Doesn't matter to me either way just want whats fair for all.
Joined Jul 2009
1,215 Posts | 0+
Deer Park, Alabama
The main thing I don't understand is why someone would buy a deer from 1200 miles away if they can get one that is comparable from their area that will be climate adjusted. I know from my personal experience the northerns have trouble this far south, and believe me I am deep south. I can step in the gulf in thirty minutes. By the same token if I shipped you a deer from this far south he would freeze to death the first winter. The hair on the northerns I tried to raise was probably ten times as thick and twice as long as a southern. In the heat of the summer I felt sorry for them. I would never say they can't be acclimated but I think deer moved laterally will do better than deer moved vertically if being moved long distances.
I know that many people disagree but I believe we almost need to start with a southern doe and AI to the northerns to get them acclimated to our climate. Most of us want the northern blood because we love the size and speed at which a northern matures, it takes about 7 years for a southern to reach his peak. We will soon know if this works because there has been hundreds, if not a thousand, of southerns AI'd to northerns in the last few years.
I do understand why people with open borders feel the way they do, I might would feel the same way if I had not have lost $25,000.00 worth of northerns last year.
I know that many people disagree but I believe we almost need to start with a southern doe and AI to the northerns to get them acclimated to our climate. Most of us want the northern blood because we love the size and speed at which a northern matures, it takes about 7 years for a southern to reach his peak. We will soon know if this works because there has been hundreds, if not a thousand, of southerns AI'd to northerns in the last few years.
I do understand why people with open borders feel the way they do, I might would feel the same way if I had not have lost $25,000.00 worth of northerns last year.
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
The advantage to having open borders for a state that just started licensing deer farms is that they could buy from folks in other states that have 5 or 7 years CWD certification - therefore instantly having that same certification themselves. The same for TB testing etc. If they can't buy from out of state and no one has this status they will always be years behind.
I personally feel the same as Sam James - all borders should be open and all states should allow both breeding and hunting. I mean, what are they really afraid of?? We all know CWD is just an excuse and not a real reason.
I personally feel the same as Sam James - all borders should be open and all states should allow both breeding and hunting. I mean, what are they really afraid of?? We all know CWD is just an excuse and not a real reason.
One of the things that make southern raised deer crossed to northerns desirable is their apparent natural immunity to some of the EHD strains. I know several of my customers have had outbreaks on their mid-west and northern farms and the deer they got from my herd did not contract EHD. Luck? Immunity? Genetics? not completely sure of the reason, but even when there are outbreaks aroud my farm, my deer do not get sick. I need to mention that I have selected my breeding stock over the years from animals that have been in herds with EHD because of their supposed immunity to the strain they had either contracted or been exposed to. Those are the does I AI with northern genetics to produce a better than average chance of immunity to EHD in my fawns. I still vaccinate for EHD as a precaution. So if Alabama deer have similar immunities to the most common strains of EHD, then they would be desirable say in Oklahoma and western Texas as well as other states. Just my thoughts, I would love to hear yours.
Joined Jul 2009
1,215 Posts | 0+
Deer Park, Alabama
Scott
I have seen the same thing here. I had a mix of pure northerns and pure southerns that I bought to start my operation. The deer were all in the same pen. All northerns died from ehd over a two day period in September last year and no southerns died. I did not vaccinate any of them. I am going to try the route of not vaccinating because I don't want to have a line of deer that are not resistant. As far as selling them in places like OK I am not sure a southern would survive the cold there and if I were in the north I would prefer the northerns due to there size and horns.
I know this is probably stupid but I believe there is a natural border that God has placed or there would not be sub species. Why else haven't the northern deer migrated this far south just like the darn coyote. We did not have coyotes her 50 years ago. Hopefully over time they will adapt and continue to move this way. I am trying to AI to the northerns hoping they will have the resistance from the doe.
For the northern breeders, please understand I am not saying the southern deer are better by any means. If I thought I could successfully raise northerns, I would. I choose to hunt in Nebraska because I love the northern deer. Just wish I could raise them! If someone will sell me northerns with a garuntee they will live one year I am willing to try but personally I spent to much money trying the pure northerns and it didn't work for me.
Scott, do you have pure northern lines that are not having problems with ehd? I wish people from the Southern states would all reply. Especially the ones who do not vaccinate. Maybe I am doing something wrong. But I do not want to vaccinate because I am trying to raise shooters that will live in the wild.
I have seen the same thing here. I had a mix of pure northerns and pure southerns that I bought to start my operation. The deer were all in the same pen. All northerns died from ehd over a two day period in September last year and no southerns died. I did not vaccinate any of them. I am going to try the route of not vaccinating because I don't want to have a line of deer that are not resistant. As far as selling them in places like OK I am not sure a southern would survive the cold there and if I were in the north I would prefer the northerns due to there size and horns.
I know this is probably stupid but I believe there is a natural border that God has placed or there would not be sub species. Why else haven't the northern deer migrated this far south just like the darn coyote. We did not have coyotes her 50 years ago. Hopefully over time they will adapt and continue to move this way. I am trying to AI to the northerns hoping they will have the resistance from the doe.
For the northern breeders, please understand I am not saying the southern deer are better by any means. If I thought I could successfully raise northerns, I would. I choose to hunt in Nebraska because I love the northern deer. Just wish I could raise them! If someone will sell me northerns with a garuntee they will live one year I am willing to try but personally I spent to much money trying the pure northerns and it didn't work for me.
Scott, do you have pure northern lines that are not having problems with ehd? I wish people from the Southern states would all reply. Especially the ones who do not vaccinate. Maybe I am doing something wrong. But I do not want to vaccinate because I am trying to raise shooters that will live in the wild.
Who cares let Alabama do what ever they choose! Does not matter what we say they are going to do what they want. maybe every State should close their borders and worry about themselves this would be real healthy for the entire Industry as a whole!!
I have a pure northern doe that is 21 years old. She has been exposed to EHD as a fawn and was very sick. We managed to pull her through and she hasn't looked back. She was AI'd in December. At 21 and if she took, she will be the oldest doe I will have to fawn this year.
Sorry,
I voted by accident. I didn't see it was for Alabama only. Hope all you Alabama guys know I discount my semen prices for Alabama breeders. The semen has to be used in Alabama though and can't be resold outside the state.
Good luck whatever you do,
Tim
I voted by accident. I didn't see it was for Alabama only. Hope all you Alabama guys know I discount my semen prices for Alabama breeders. The semen has to be used in Alabama though and can't be resold outside the state.
Good luck whatever you do,
Tim
Forgot to say I am in Oklahoma and we have worse heat and just as bad EHD bluetongue but over the years my deer have done well here and in Florida. Maximus D/T must have some immunity because his downline has survived extremly well. Every son has been over 2oo" at 3 and all of his grandsons as well. Pretty good average.
Tim Condict
Tim Condict
Joined Jul 2009
1,215 Posts | 0+
Deer Park, Alabama
Scott
What about the offspring from that doe? do they have the resistance? What part of the state are you in?
What about the offspring from that doe? do they have the resistance? What part of the state are you in?
Joined Jul 2009
1,215 Posts | 0+
Deer Park, Alabama
Tim
If your deer are doing well in Florida then the problem may well be me. I live about 50 miles from Florida. Maybe I need some of that Maximus D/T blood.
If your deer are doing well in Florida then the problem may well be me. I live about 50 miles from Florida. Maybe I need some of that Maximus D/T blood.
