Backup buck theory

OK. I've been doing a lot of thinking about who to breed who to this fall, as I'm sure you all have likewise. I was introduced to an idea about the timeframe of backing up AI. It goes like this: As soon as your does are reversed and no longer show the effects of tranquilization,release them into the backup pen of choice. This keeps the Buck from hurting the doe obviously. The theory is that the time from when the doe was lapped till total drug recovery, she has already taken to what sperm will fertilize her eggs or not. The rest of the inseminated semen is killed off by the does body. It rejects this foreign substance and is eliminated by her releasing a chemical. This happens within a couple of hours! Now put in with backup, and catch her on first cycle! Early fawns either way. Early fawns get bigger quicker while its cool and wean earlier allowing doe to recover before fall. This is of course if your not planning on trying AI later. No 21 day lapse or missed breeding. If he breeds her and all of her eggs are not fertilized by AI Buck semen then you get possibly a doe to carry offspring from two different sires! Its a win win situation. You haven't lost anything and gained it all. Please, if you will ,give me any feedback concerning this as I am thinking of trying this fall. Thanks Jason DCW

Bruce said:

Bad idea. Increases stress on doe and decreases AI conception. IMHO

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Agreed. The back up buck chases the doe and the fertilized egg is less likely to stick. If you want fawns out of the back up buck just put the does straight in there with him and save money on semen and AI expenses.

What's stressful about it Bruce? Doesn't a doe get chased around for about 24-48 hours when in heat?

The Guy that mentioned this to me is a ranch manager for someone close by. I will not mention his name, but he is well known in the deer industry! I'm not saying he knows what he's talking about, but it was an arguable point. Keep the advice coming!

I'm no expert on this, but it would seem to me that if she didn't take to the A/I for one of the million reasons why they might not. That she won't cycle again for + or - 28 days anyway. I guess I don't see how you still get 1st cycle fawns from the backup buck.

Unless of course she simply didn't take to the A/I because she in fact wasn't in heat from the whole process of the CIDR and such and she then came into heat naturally at some point a few days later. But if that is the case just put your does in with the backup buck sooner than normal. Whatever normal is considered.

We have always A/I'ed on Nov 11th plus or minus a couple of days. Then put backup buck in about Nov 27th or 28th. So I guess "normal" for us is about 16 or 17 days later.

Just try introducing the backup buck then say at 7 or 10 days instead.

I had Glen Erickson do my AI last year and was pleased to say the least. The last doe he lapped was as he said " the best looking of the bunch"! I split semen between all the does, so when I got to this one she ended up getting a full straw. I'm telling you this because she was smoking hot in heat. I had issues trying to get her in with the backup Buck, so i elected to leave her alone. SHE DID NOT BREED AT ALL! If I had done what I mentioned in the first post, would she have bred? Who knows. One thing is certain, if Curt W. And Billy sage used him, he knows his stuff!

We take notes on all our does each fall when we A/I. It never fails that some doe that has a little puss or infection and you don't think she will take still takes. The one who was in "really good heat" is the one that won't take. Go figure! Sometimes I think it is more luck than anything

Roger,Its definitely a mystery sometimes. I guess I made Bruce mad, he's not talkin. Droptine makes a reasonable point about the already fertilized eggs though not sticking to the uterine wall due to vigorous movement. Has anybody practiced anything other than 21 days later?

I wouldn't do it for all the reasons mentioned above along with the fact that you mentioned Lap AI.... Two fresh insicions under her belly and being chased by a buck probably wouldnt go well together. That could lead to any number of things....

We lap AId 10 doe and 7 took. The backup buck was in the pen next to the does, he messed with the chain hook and got into the pen at 6 days. We were worried that he might upset the does but all went well. The 3 that didn't take fawned at 28 and 29 days past the AI. So 6 days seems to be safe.

Interesting! Thanks for the experience. It sounds like you got a smart Buck there-(breaking & entering )! If he had gotten to them earlier, I wonder if you would had them fawn all at the same time?