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Breeders, growers, preserves and hunters. Get your thought in!

R

redgolds

Joined Jan 2013
361 Posts | 1+
NJ, deer are kept in PA
I kinda started a topic in an already existing thread. Figured I would start this new one here


so why is a preserve able to lower prices on us as growers for their preserves. Like I said before, I haven't sold a deer yet but many friends have sold. So I know what goes on and how it works. A lot of people complain about low prices being offered for great deer, but yet the deer still sells for that price.


I have a great looking 2 year old, 4x5 with both brows split making him an 11 point. Huge frame, long times, over 20 inches inside spread, completely clean. No stickers anywhere...guessing he scores mid 160s.my big offer for my buck, from a pa preserve....... $1450 if he scores 160s. But the same preserve will sell my buck to a hunter for..... $6500. Preserve will make $5000 in 48 hrs and it took me 2 years to make ( actually break even) $1450. Come on now.


Open topic to anyone that wants to reply. This is my opinion and thoughts. We all have them. Keep it clean and respectful folks

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I think the price should be half the hunt price. That is fair. Deer are expensive to raise but so are preserves to build and run. Lol. I have spent to much on both! If that is your problem, there is either an oversupply of shooters or the preserve owner is taking an unfair advantage. I would not sale unless I got half the hunt price. Just be sure the hunt price is as high as you think.
 
It is your buck. You set your price and stick to it. If others do as well the prices will come up. You don't set your pickup truck out by the road for sale then let people come along and tell you what to ask for it. Never let anyone tell you at what price you have to sell your bucks.
 
Having had both a 2500 acre hunting facility and being a breeder I know the cost of both operations.  The one difference the way we ran our facility was we took the animals right after antler drop before the hunt in fall.  We were in a co-op like situation with the breeders and we each made money if the animal was harvested. The animal was not paid for by the harvest facility till it was harvested.  Very few times did we lose an animal but I'll bet that animal loss was just the same if the breeder cared for his own animal till harvested.  This method gave the hunting client an animal that responded like a wild animal.  This method is now not available to big acre havest facilities because of over regulation with deer inventories etc.  The breeder was given free food for that year but at all times the animal was the loss of the breeder if lost to anything before the hunt.  We did a 50/50 split on the hunt price.  I was about to go to a 45/55 split on the hunt price with the 55% of the hunt price going to the facility when Montana closed down the hunting facilities here..  The cost running a high quality hunt facility just ate up so much money the breeders would be surprised at all the costs.


As the deer hunts are being done soon after the bucks arrives it would seem a split of 45/55 would still be right for both parties but I would feel the breeder should still be responsibility for loss till harvested..  This does require trust between the harvest facility and the breeder but I would take this method any day for a better price on my animals.


The way now is not going to make money for the breeder that is for sure.
 
Are you sure a preserve will shoot that deer for $6500? That sounds high for that hunt to me (based in the preserves we've worked with), and part of the problem is that, in PA, there are too many deer like that. I'm not saying your buck is not a very nice deer, but there are 160 something mainframe tens at every farm in the state, so it really does come down to supply and demand.
 
On smaller hunts I can see the 50/50 thing working. I don't think it is fair to the producer on high dollar hunts especially if the producer assumes any risk once the animal is in the preserve.
 
It is not realistic for the breeder to assume the responsibility of the animals once they leave the farm (if they are in good health when they leave)


To much can happen thats not in the control of the breeder so how can they take on that responsibility?


Why should the hunt ranch have zero responsibility?


Just makes no sense to me
 
Randy I agree. On every reciet I have for a sold deer the purchaser and the seller sign off that the animal was delivered or picked up with no sign of illness, problem, or physical abnormalities. There is no responsibility after deer is delivered or taken off of farm. I have never had a problem with any farm signing off on that and all think its very fair.
 
Deer chaser


I agree with your post. I surely see half being a fair price of whatever that buck brings to be shot.


Jeff, the hunt price was gonna be $6000 and I added $500 for shipping expense.. Maybe a little on the high side..


Bell, that's where the problem lies. I'm sticking to my price. But like Jeff also said. ALOT of farms around me have pretty much the same deer and they will sell for the price I gave. I can hold out until next year on selling my buck. Others cannot and have to move animals to make room for others and what not. So the buyer will just make ridiculously low offer and buy what they have. But here I am opening my wallet to pay for this buck another year with probably more loss... And hope the buck still makes it to next year


I understand and appreciate buyers for preserves. Don't get me wrong. I understand they wanna get bucks at rock bottom prices. I'm sure costs of operating a high fence operation are high, but not giving us as growers enough for our deer make it harder each year to grow them more deer. I have literally been sitting next to a grower, listening to him almost beg for such and such preserve to buy his deer. He needed them moved due to illness. Shouldn't it almost be the other way around?!? We have what the preserves want the way I see it. Yes we also need the preserve to buy out deer also....


The shipping thing has me baffled!!!

If I buy a tv from the internet, it is my responsibility to pay for shipping. I have sold hundreds of things from eBay. It was the buyers responsibility to pay shipping. Should be the same way here with deer. Whoever loads the deer can see wether or not the animal is in good health and they should make the call right there to take the animal or not. Sounds easy enough
 
Travis, that's exactly what should be done at every farm. Once the deer leaves, it then should become the shippers deer, then arrive at the farm/preserve. The shipper would really look a deer over and make a good choice on taking or leaving the deer if it would be their deer for the trip.
 
I would score my own deer. I would haul my own deer. I would sell them directly to the preserve owner. When I deliver my bucks and they come off the trailer I am paid the agreed price then. If the deer doesn't unload healthy then things are renegotiated. You will get screwed if a middleman buys and hauls your deer. Learn to correctly and honestly score your bucks and deliver them. Watch them come off the trailer with your own eyes. If you don't drive pay a driver to hall YOU and your bucks.
 
We as the breeders need to set our prices 50/50 would be a good price seeing as breeders take most of the risk raising them for 2-3 years  if we all set basically the same price for "160in deer" then thats what the preserves will pay when you have people selling deer for 1k or so less then what it should have been sold for is what hurts all of us as far as the hauler being responsible i have hauled a lot of deer for people and unless something happens to the buck that was caused by the hauler "Leaving deer on trailer to long, accident that was haulers fault ect " the hauler shouldn't be held responsible as a hauler i try to look at the deer as they come on the trailer if they are being live loaded if they have to be darted its pretty simple to look over a deer and decide if i am hauling it or if it will stay on the farm i also make sure to stop every couple hours and check the deer to make sure every thing is Ok Just my 2 cents
 
The early symptoms of capture myopathy are very difficult discern when an animal is being loaded or already on the trailer? They look so normal in the face and everything. I have hauled enough deer to have witnessed animals develop the condition which is rarely reversible. You can never be sure an animal is ok until watching the animals posture after it comes off the trailer. Even then a lot of people might not recognize the early stages of capture myopathy. Truckers that haul cattle get their pay garnished if a cow is dead when they reach their destination. I would not want to be responsible for hauling someone else's $25,000 dollar deer.
 
it should be 50/50 in my eyes if they are getting 6500.00 wow in this economy you should get no less than 3250.00 hold out on them maybe they will buy for your price if the deer lives another year then go up 900.00 JM2Cw T&S
 
I agree on the half, but as a preserve owner it boils down to a couple different factors.

1 Are your deer what MY hunters are looking for

2 How many do you have, this year and next

3 Delivery!!! You are selling me YOUR deer.... Not an object on ebay

Preserve owners work endlessly in the fall, so we dont have the time to run the country in a truck.

If the criterias are met with ME fhen you will get a good check, usually over half our hunts. Really what it boils down to is preserve owners are no different then a guy finding a deal on ebay. There a guys that give there deer away, thats there problem. If you spend your time online and on the phone you will find a good buyer... Trust me!!!

These are some of the things that come to mind, but if you want to make it in this business your better not have to sell your deer early, because november and december are good hunting months and you will get paid good
 
Clear view, thank you for the reply. I get what your saying about #1 and #2.


Delivery, to me, is no different than buying from eBay or anywhere else for that matter. The buyer always pays shipping. Even in buying a new vehicle delivery is factored into the buyers cost. I would almost think a preserve owner, manager or whoever from that preserve would wanna come see the animals that they are purchasing. I understand time is precious in that time of the year but a grower spends their time caring for a deer all year. Why couldn't a preserve owner take sometime for an animal that THEY want. Sure, I wanna sell my deer for the best price I can get but you give me $1450 for my deer then I pay for hauling, time, etc, I might get $1000 for him after it's all said and done?
 
Red gold that is why if it is a deer that MY hunters want you WILL get more. But it go back to a relationship with between the breeder and the preserve. When I sell MY pigs or cattle I deliver them to make sure they walk off the trailer. There are way to many dishonest people these days.... Just ask Bell. What it boils down to with us.... You treat us right you will be happy!! But I know first hand that does not always work out. But if you find a preserve you can work with you better have the stock to make him happy!! These are just how we work.
 
Clearview. I agree and disagree again.. lol


Im sure you are aware that a grower just doesnt go "get" a deer that "your" hunter wants.... we, as growers have all the leg work on trying to produce a deer that your hunter wants... we assume all the risk In trying to produce that deer. In the very high chance that a doe doesnt take to ai or however she is bred, we are the one that is screwed that year for that doe... not you. You go to the next grower and buy what he has available.


I agree a relationship is important between the grower and preserve
 
I completely unerstand redgold, i also have around 200 deer myself that I try to keep alive myself. With everything from AI to EHD I have been there and felt the pain. Usually every year, but bottom line in the end is what the hunter will pay for. Just trying to give you a little advice from the buying part of bucks.
 

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