Court Rules Law Banning Deer, Elk Unconstitutional

Court Rules Law Banning Deer, Elk Unconstitutional



The Kentucky Court of Appeals recently ruled the state’s law banning the importation of deer and elk to prevent the spread of chronic wasting disease in local herds was unconstitutionally vague.



A three-judge panel ruled that Kentucky’s law did not clearly define what it means to “import” animals into the state. At issue was the case of a Tennessee man arrested in 2007 on charges of illegally importing elk and deer into Kentucky.



McCracken County Circuit Court Judge Craig Clymer had ruled previously that the state law under which Timothy Cory Looper was charged was unclear and thus void. Looper was not convicted.



“He engaged in no deception,” Chief Judge Sara Combs wrote in her opinion. ‘It is reasonable to believe that he drove through Kentucky in good faith — having no fair notice from a statue lacking the precision to alert as to the possibility of criminal consequences.”



For the full story, go to: http://www.ntfarc.com/smforum/index.php?board=9.0

Can you now haul deer thru Kentucky?

I would suggest contacting the KY State Wildlife Agency first.

You know what I find sad, and is a telling sign of why we as an industry continue to take it in the butt? This thread was started 3 days ago and has only gotten 200 views. While threads with pictures have gotten hundreds of views. Do we not care about our very survival?

Everybody's waiting on someone else to say or do what theyre thinking..... which in a nutshell is what has gotten the country as a whole to the point it is. Now that its starting to open up I'm going to rant so bear with me..... With all the terrible cervid diseases out there, we as a group, an industry, a community stood by and gave the government, the state wildlife agencies, the opportunity they were looking for when CWD was becoming an issue. We allowed those laws to pass even though the science, and even the states own biologists say CWD isnt the worst case scenario out there. Its given them the opportunity to push regulations and rules down our throats while some smaller farms go under. I'm fortunate enough to be in Texas but I'm also smart enough to know the odds are sooner or later CWD will be found in a deer in Texas and we'll be in the same boat some of you up North have been in.



They found a way to control the competition and I dont think they'll loosen their grasp on it without one hell of a fight. I accept my part of the blame for not being a voice to my senator and congresman when it went down. I believe their point was/is weak and couldve been better combatted then than now. I dont complain about the rules or regulations anymore because I've realized I helped the state bring them on me. Its a shame we allow the people that despise us and feel that we're their competition push us around the way they have. Like I said, I'm very fortunate to be in Texas in that the regulations arent as demanding as they are in other parts of the country. We have it pretty good here even though my local biologist lets me know she despises what I do. Maybe its because I can do in three years on this land what the states management program hasnt done in a hundred.



Honestly, I think they're are some deer farmers in my state as well as others that dont ever want to see the borders reopened because they have a gravytrain here now with the price of breeding deer and stockers. Believe me I would LOVE to be able to go to DC's or Reed's and buy their deer for twice the money instead of giving some wealthy prick here(not that I have anything against wealth) the opportunity to take my money knowing he was the only one that had what I needed or that he could get that price because billy bob got that price and he wasnt going to negotiate, these are the people that have our politicians ears......



If we did have open borders I think it would even the market across the country as a whole. As it is there's too many breeders in one state, too many stockers in the state next too it, too few stockers in the state below it, then you have a state thats growing leaps and bounds like Alabama and most smaller farms are having to start with less than desirable genetics because they dont have much to choose from. My point is everyones affected in some way or another. I think David's in one of the worst states to be in and he seems like our loudest voice at times. I applaud him for his effort and all he does for our industry but he cant do it alone. Like Roger said, its a shame this thread has as little traffic as it has. Everybodies too busy looking at deer they wish they had a $5000 straw of semen out of and thinking of the reasons they cant give $100 to a political action commitee wether its nadefa or tda or any state organization.



I could go on but right now I have to feed babies. Hope I didnt offend anyone and hope it made sense, it just gets under my skin that all the rights this country has fought for for 233 years are slowly being eroded and we as a whole want to blame the government. WE are the government and we should have a voice but since we dont have a voice anymore we get all these rules, regulations, bailouts, and crap we just accept as the way it is..... Its all related and its terrible but its a reflection of the Spirit of our once Great Nation....

Get out the soap box Steven is holding court! Couldn't agree more. I don't know about Kentucky, but I know Texas won't allow anyone to cross are borders with deer. At a TDA board meeting they shot down a chance to at least help out Oklahoma to cut across the upper corner of the state to get into La. and if I might add did it with arrogance and a smirk on their faces. But let one of those same farmers put an ad in tracks magazine and they don't have a problem taking their money. Better yet some of these people probably belong to TDA. The border crossing thing is driven buy the all mighty dollar and you can't tell me any different!!!! Move over Steven. Thanks Autry for the info you keep posting, if it wasn't for you most on here wouldn't know about most of these issues. I agree with my old freind Roger it is a shame! ZZ

Ditto's to all. ZZ, the border "lock down" IS driven by money AND the fear factor. Like the bible say's; "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil". In essense..if Rolls Royces can't be brought into your state then you'll have do buy a Cadillac (at about what a Rolls would cost you). Too, I think another reason people in our business don't speak out is the "fear factor". If you think you are already in their sights, all they have to do is pull the trigger. Summing it up is like this; While they (law makers) are standing on a bridge of prominance we are walking on egg shells.

I just watched triathlon runners come down the road in front of our house and when they were at the S.E. corner of our property there is a sign with a few cheerleaders for encouragement making them turn around and go back in the direction they just came from. They could just as easy take a right and go around a horsheshoe shaped road and not even have to take this route but they don't. If I was to complain about this the township that is made up mostly of folks who were not living here even ten years would dismiss my complaint and probably come after me to shut me down. The point is we have to keep a low profile as deer farmers and pick our battles while we stay involved in a legislative level where it matters the most.

As I watch these people I wonder about things like how many of these people understand the food chain, know how much people and dogs affect wildlife, or have ever stood 5 feet from a doe as she nurses a buck fawn. I am double-fenced and my interior fence has a 100% black shade cover from ground level to the top of the fence. I have had to take these extra measures since I don't own a lot of animals and one deer lost to me would be like ten to most others. It is a pain to get out and open and shut an eight foot tall steel cattle gate at the end of the driveway but it is better than the alternative. The alternative would bankrupt me and more importantly make the last 11 years of my life a waste of time. You will never convince these people that live around me that their dog is a four-legged terrorist. What happened to ZZ with TexRoller from a wild dog is a tragedy. I could kill a dog but not with a gun and trying to be financially reimbursed would be laughable.

Many of these people would be enamored with the buck fawn nursing from his mother but not understanding logistics would be shocked to find out that this fawn is the last one that doe will have before she goes down the proverbial road. These are tough decisions that us farmers have to make on a yearly basis that people who don't understand the food chain don't have the stomach to or can't even comprehend the life-cycle of an animal.

But we have to stand our ground to keep from being pushed out completely.

Recently here in WI a deer grower had a dog issue. He came rushing home when his wife called to tell him they were under attack from dogs. He shot the dogs, killing I think is was one, and one or 2 others escaped with wounds. He did lose deer and did have several injured. He was charged with several crimes including felonies. He fought the charges and a lawsuit from one of the dog owners. One dog owner was sorry and paid for damages. He won the lawsuit and counter sued for damages. Last I heard the case was on shaky ground and that he would most likely win against the legal charges filed against him.

The person who filed the charges had made statements that showed she was obviously an animals "rights" advocate. But this person was in a position of power to push her personal agenda. The law they tried to use says that dogs chasing deer can only be shot by the DNR. Here in WI our deer are of course livestock and therefore fall under another set of rules. The rules state that livestock can be protected against dogs and such. That is how the case was won. What if he had not done anything for fear of being tormented more later? What if he had just rolled over and took the punishment for breaking a law he didn't break? By fighting it he set a standard that can be used in future cases here in WI.

Note to everyone, check your local laws and see if you are covered in this way. If not make an effort to get the laws in your favor now instead of waiting for the crisis to happen.

Our state org has meetings with several departments from the state every so often. I try and attend as many as I can. Some times I have something to say and other times it is the "numbers game" that I am there for. If no one ever attends these meetings the state says...they have no following so we can disregard what ever they are wanting.

More people need to get active and attend meetings.

The national level is another important arena that we have to show a force. Again numbers if not any other reason is why more people need to get active. I went this year to D.C. (sorry to say it was my first time, but I feel it won't be my last) Many state orgs will pay the cost of going, and NADEFA will also help with the costs.

You want to get attention have a dozen people all walk into a congressmen's office. They know that there are important issues that are going to be discussed, and they listen.

But too many don't do anything to help themselfs. Right on this very forum I see people complain about fees we are being assessed and yet they don't attend meetings, or even donate a dollar to their state orgs. But yet they are the loudest complainers against laws and fees.

Just get active.

Not to sound stupid but how did dogs get into a 10' enclosure???

The dogs didn't get in that I am aware of, and I didn't say that they did get in. Dogs chasing the outside of the fence will do just as much killing and damage.

Romeacres,



To answer your question, the dogs can and will dig under the fence and quickly at that. I believe there were several remedies discussed on the old forums.

under...

But they can do damage from the outside.

I have lost MANY deer to dogs running them to death and making them crash the fence.



THE REAL MATTER AT HAND IS...

I suggest anyone who can afford to join NADEFA and their state deer association ...I did both this year for the first time...I only had deer as pets for 7 years and my boyfriend had them since 95...I didn't know to get involved til this year and I think it is the most important thing to do...in this case without help that person would/could have been hung out to dry...And you never know when it could be one of us depending on how the wind blows/and how government reads something.They can make new laws any day if we let it happen.

Wow... I guess i took a long time to type!

I agree guys! We need to fight for our rights. Some guys say that deer aren't quailified as "Livestock" because they were a wild animal. They must not know where the horses came from or the cows even. They were all from the wild at one point in time. We need to fight and get everyone on the same page, otherwise we will not be quailified as a livestock. WE ARE!! Just my opinion!