DNA What are your thoughts???

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ddwhitetails

Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
3,353
Location
Fombell PA
Just curiuos........what is everyone's thoughts on DNA? Do you think it is accurate? Their are some that say it is not!! Just curiuos what everyones opinion is on this..........there are people being convicted for life on the conviction of DNA......but yet I hear some in the deer business don't believe it is accurate ....how can that be....what are YOIR thoughts?
 
Hi Dennis - I've heard before that the requirements/testing/procedures for confirmed human DNA go much deeper and are much more stringent than that which is used for deer. Like I said...this is what I've heard. Hope you're well Dennis!! Blessed and highly favored maybe?! :)
 
On our farm we dna ever elk on the farm and we have never had one not match to the sire or dam. I personal would never buy an elk or deer that was not dna matched on the top and bottom side. There is to much money for me to take a chance and its not like we have only done a few. In the last few years we have tested a couple hundred elk with no problems.
 
Depending on where you have your deer or elk screened, can make a difference in the amount of markers used to test. Last time I check DNA solutions used 14 markers, and wildlife genetics used 17. One area that I have seen an issue is if people dont keep accurate records of who was in the pens with eachother, then a father bred his daughter and the markers for this offspring were extremely hard to decipher due to the genetics being so tightly bred. I am not saying its good or bad to breed father to daughter, I saying keep better track of your animals and this shouldnt happen. If you have 10-15 does in a pen with a breeder buck, I think it goes with out saying, dont have a buck fawn in the pen unless you want there to be a chance of a mistake occuring. Wild Rivers, you hit the nail on the head. The hunter doesnt care what that deers pedigree looks like.



-Johnny B
 
Johnny b. We use UC Davis for the elk, and your right you have to know who got breed to what. I can see where it might get confusing if you mistakenly thought a doe or cow got breed by buck or bull A when it was in with buck or bull B. But it doesn't mean dna in deer and elk isn't accurate like some believe. I think it more a case or they don't have what they think they have.
 
So unless a farmer would have something to hide......why wouldn't you believe that DNA is accurate? Has anyone ever had a case where the DNA was not accurate?
 
When I worked for my father in law, we had a buck who we had a really hard time identifying. He was a son from buck A, buck A had a daughter whom he bred. This daughter of buck A had buck B. Buck B's DNA so closely matched that of his fathers that it was extremely difficult to determine if he was offspring of buck A. He was only showing off by 1 marker to being a perfect match to buck A. I agree 100% about your statement ddwhitetails. I think there are enough inaccuracies that a farmer could be dishonest if they wanted to in order to hide something. Thats just my my opinion though.



-Johnny B
 
This was discussed earlier and can't get the link to work, found it doing a search with

DNA testing and found it in Antlers Bar and Lounge. Was about the 3rd page from my search
 
Yes but if you are selling a deer and saying it is from BUck A.......bred to this doe B......then there should not be a problem....unless the farmer is trying to pull a fast one and sell you something different than what he told you......if it is just a typical breeding like let's just say hardcore.......being bred to my duramax doe.......there should be know way that the DNA could come up wrong or inaccurate in this case correct???
 
ddwhitetails said:
Yes but if you are selling a deer and saying it is from BUck A.......bred to this doe B......then there should not be a problem....unless the farmer is trying to pull a fast one and sell you something different than what he told you......if it is just a typical breeding like let's just say hardcore.......being bred to my duramax doe.......there should be know way that the DNA could come up wrong or inaccurate in this case correct???
Click to expand...



As long as there is dna on file for both the buck and doe I don't see how it wouldn't match. Unless im wrong but we have never had a problem with a known bull breeding a known cow. Like johnny b said, we have had some very close geneticly but never have we had a one we couldn't match were we know both the sire and dam.
 
I would not think there would be a way it could happen Dennis. The only way I would see this being possible is if there were identical twins. That has only ever happened once in captive deer that have been DNA'd to the best of my knowledge. I think DNA solutions has the samples and certification. I dont know for sure though. The problems would arise Dennis when some one didnt keep good records of their animals. If they didnt know they year a certain doe was born, then tried to turn in a large amount of animals all at once and said to the testing location "here, tell us who is who". I couldnt agree with you more. I wouldnt deal with anyone that tried pulling one over on me. Im sure your not in any different boat.



-Johnny B
 
I have no intention of selling breeder's but still every doe that i own is DNA'ed, I have not done the 2011 fawn's yet but will send in a sample from every doe fawn that I plan to keep to breed in April when I do my TB test. I want them dna'ed because I want to know 100% for sure what I have. I plan to ai everything so I feel better knowing what the doe's are that I am breeding. Also that way when I do sell a animal I can say for sure what they are and give the paper work to back that up.
 
We do not DNA our animals. However we do pull hair samples and keep on file so at any point in time if i want I can or even more importantly if a buyer would like that proof i can do so in a quick manner.



So even though i do not have a DNA done on all our animals i think its a great thing to have. Documentation is what our industry is about. If it was not we would not focus so much on pedigrees. DNA is the next step to insuring the quality of the genetics we purchase. So we always have those samples on hand for request of potential buyers or to ease my own curiosity, or to even move towards a complete DNA herd in the future.
 
Whats wrong Dennis, are you wondering why you look more like the old neighbor next door.
 
RLA whitetails - you say you have no intention of selling breeders - then are you selling shooters? If so, you don't need all that expense of DNA. If you have one buck with a group of does you will know who the sire is. Do you need to know more than that? If you are selling shooters I guarantee you they will not ask for DNA.
 
Wild Rivers Whitetails said:
RLA whitetails - you say you have no intention of selling breeders - then are you selling shooters? If so, you don't need all that expense of DNA. If you have one buck with a group of does you will know who the sire is. Do you need to know more than that? If you are selling shooters I guarantee you they will not ask for DNA.
Click to expand...



At this point I ai every doe to try to get better doe's to produce those shooter's. I want to know 100% for sure what every doe I buy is out of so I will have a better idea of what buck to use on each doe. I will have to sell these doe's sometime, would be nice to have paperwork on them when I need it. The 80-90$ it cost is more than worth it. I have no intention of having any of my buck's or doe fawn's from a back up buck checked. That would be a waste of money there.
 
Not an expert on this subject. Due to a friends misfortune on a deer deal, I've been thinking about how much confidence I have in DNA and semen. Correct me if I'm wrong. From what I've been hearing, there are absolutely no safeguards in place to guaranty you are getting DNA or semen from the right deer. It looks like it's all done on the honor system. I know of a semen draw, done for an absent new owner, by the previous owner, where in my mind there is absolutely no way to know if the right buck was drawn. Shouldn't the people getting paid to do the draw be doing something to insure that it's the right buck? Like taking pics of the antlers??? DNA?? Couldn't I have full brothers, one good, one bad, that I could manipulate the samples so that I could sell semen and fawns out of the bad one but they would DNA back to the good brother. On paper anyway. Looks to me, that if you don't pull dna from the parents yourself, you COULD be getting screwed. Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong. Wade
 
ddwhitetails said:
So unless a farmer would have something to hide......why wouldn't you believe that DNA is accurate? Has anyone ever had a case where the DNA was not accurate?
Click to expand...



It didn't work on O.J. Simpson. :mad:
 
Willows & Whitetails said:
Not an expert on this subject. Due to a friends misfortune on a deer deal, I've been thinking about how much confidence I have in DNA and semen. Correct me if I'm wrong. From what I've been hearing, there are absolutely no safeguards in place to guaranty you are getting DNA or semen from the right deer. It looks like it's all done on the honor system. I know of a semen draw, done for an absent new owner, by the previous owner, where in my mind there is absolutely no way to know if the right buck was drawn. Shouldn't the people getting paid to do the draw be doing something to insure that it's the right buck? Like taking pics of the antlers??? DNA?? Couldn't I have full brothers, one good, one bad, that I could manipulate the samples so that I could sell semen and fawns out of the bad one but they would DNA back to the good brother. On paper anyway. Looks to me, that if you don't pull dna from the parents yourself, you COULD be getting screwed. Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong. Wade
Click to expand...





Depends on who is drawing the semen. I know GLSS pulls hair on every buck that they collect just for this situation. If you had any doubt about the honesty of the guy who did the collection and GLSS collected the buck in question its as simple as a DNA match to the hair that they personally pull and keep at their facility on the buck after the collection. I commend them and think this keeps some of the bad guys at bay.
 

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