Fawn help needed

Hello all,

I am looking for some information regarding WhiteTailed fawns. I am a licensed wildlife rehabilitator in NY state and am trying to help a fellow rehabber that raises fawns. The formula we currently use is Ultra 24. We have two situations going on.



1) Have at least two fawns with very runny diarrhea. She has tried Deliver with limited success. Fecal smears/floatations have been negative. They do have an appetite. Any suggestions to help control the diarrhea. She has also been using Kaolin.



2) The second situation is the one that is frustrating me the most. Have had multiple fawns (with no diarrhea) that seem to have multiple hypoglycemic episodes. They will be fine and then become very lethargic, weak, some times have seizures. Blood Glucose drops. Generally will respond with dextrose. They will do fine for a few hours to a day then crash again. Any ideas.



i am looking for as much info as I can get on caring for orphaned fawns. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.



Thank you for your time



Cara Huffman

Upstate New York

situation # 1 you may be overfeeding dilute the formula 50% for 1 day then re-evaluate



situation #2 start by stimulating them until they are completely cleaned out, what I mean is use a warm cloth keep rinseing it out spend 15 min/ fawn. give them 2cc la-200 sub-Q( or equivilent) give 0.3CC dexamethazone



over feeding fawns can cause symptoms that resemble toxic shock

rptrhlr said:

The formula we currently use is Ultra 24. We have two situations going on.



1) Have at least two fawns with very runny diarrhea. She has tried Deliver with limited success. Fecal smears/floatations have been negative. They do have an appetite. Any suggestions to help control the diarrhea. She has also been using Kaolin.

Click to expand...

A couple questions -

1. How old are the fawns - best estimate?
   
2. How many ounces per feeding and how often are you feeding and rearing them?
   

rptrhlr said:

2) The second situation is the one that is frustrating me the most. Have had multiple fawns (with no diarrhea) that seem to have multiple hypoglycemic episodes. They will be fine and then become very lethargic, weak, some times have seizures. Blood Glucose drops. Generally will respond with dextrose. They will do fine for a few hours to a day then crash again. Any ideas.

Click to expand...

Several questions -

1. have you taken a temperature, if so is it normal?
   
2. how old are the fawns - best estimate?
   
3. do the seizure episodes seem as though the fawn is trying to go in circles?
   
4. At the onset of the episodes, do the legs just fall out from under the fawns as if they just went limp and then the seizures start?
   
5. How many ounces per feeding and how often fed?
   
6. After the fawn snaps out of the seizure, do they act as though nothing happened and seem normal?
   

This information will be very helpful... In the mean time, have you contacted a veterinarian? That should be the first step, in my opinion.



Good luck,

John

for diarrhea we use one tablespoon pumpkin pie mix and one teaspoon plain all natural yogurt. It has worked great to correct scours for us. This is assuming that the proper amount of formula is being given and that the amount is not the cause.



for the hypoglycemic episodes we will need a few of the questions answered from above.

are you giving natural soil (dirt) free choice to the fawns? This is natures best probiotic and should always be available free choice. It should also be replace at least every other day. Scrape off the top 1 inch of soil then scrape the next 1 inch to give to the fawns. They will eat it right up. Be sure you get the soil from an area away from areas treated for weeds and such. We get ours from inside of a wooded area to ensure it is pestiside free.

We work with multiple small animal vets (one of whom I work for), but their experience with large animals (ruminants) is very limited.



Multiple fecal tests have should no signs of parasites.



hypoglycemic fawns:

1) Temperature ranges from subnormal to normal.



2 ) Best estimate fawns are about 1 week old



3 /4 ) fawns just go limp, will lay on their sides if not propped up, will through head back, and be completely listliss, become pale and feel very cold to the touch. She has had them go into full jerking seizures sometimes.



5) I believe she is feeding on an average of 3 to 4 oz a feeding 4 times a day.



6) yep once they are over the episode the act as if nothing has happened.



Just a few other notes. Because of the diarrhea and funky episodes, many of the fawns are kept seperate in carriers and completely covered.



I hope to get bloodwork on one of the fawns today, if she can get him up to me at work. Are there normal values out there that we can compare them too?.



thanks



Cara

rptrhlr said:

3 /4 ) fawns just go limp, will lay on their sides if not propped up, will through head back, and be completely listliss, become pale and feel very cold to the touch. She has had them go into full jerking seizures sometimes.



6) yep once they are over the episode the act as if nothing has happened.



I hope to get bloodwork on one of the fawns today, if she can get him up to me at work. Are there normal values out there that we can compare them too?.



Cara

Click to expand...

I don't want to give a sense of false hope, but we had a fawn that acted the same way. We spent a couple months testing and medicating with little to no progress. It was like one step forward and then one step backwards through the whole process.



After the fawn got a little older, during the episodes, it would stay on its feet and run in circles instead of going limp, dropping to the ground and turning its head back. A lot of people had suggested the possibility of "circling disease or [COLOR=#]listeriosis[/COLOR]" but we were giving a regiment of heavy antibiotics from the onset, so we ruled listerosis out as it is usually fatal in a few days or a week if not treated.



After a barrage of testing and not making any progress, along with the fawn becoming even further injured by running into things during the episodes, we elected that the best solution would be to put the fawn down. The Vet felt it was either head trauma or the fawn had a high fever that may have caused brain damage. In your case of four fawns, I am thinking there may be more too it than that.



Over the last several years a few other folks had something similar with fawns, but nothing has been said if any treatments worked.



I wish I could be of more help, but I just don't know what can possibly fix the little buggers. Hopefully someone will come forward and provide a solution along with the normal blood test levels. If you do get it figured out, can you please share the findings with us? I know I would like to know how to fix it, if someone, or myself ever has the unfortunate experience again.



Good luck,

John

Possible thiamine deficiency? Or what about calcium/phosphorus ratio being out of whack? Don't know, just thinking about physical symptoms in horses when those things aren't right in their diets.

I had a yearling I bought off offsomeone go through the same thing ...We ended up putting him down...I have video if anyone wants to see it...

Very sad and graphic...Penn State said Vit.B/Thiamine Deficiency...Same symptoms circles...Than started crashing circles...

PaintedMeadowsBJs said:

I had a yearling I bought off offsomeone go through the same thing ...We ended up putting him down...I have video if anyone wants to see it...

Very sad and graphic...Penn State said Vit.B/Thiamine Deficiency...Same symptoms circles...Than started crashing circles...

Click to expand...

Painted,

I would like to see the video.



[email protected]

John

Just celebrating the Penguin win...

I will call you tomorrow... There are several video's... I documented it from the first sign till the end...

I will make a disk and send It to you...

You to Scott, I already planned on sending you all the paper work from Penn State.

Has anyone found any Good info relating to this? I have had 3 deer fawns, days old, doing this. We've lost 2 so far. Each throws it's head back and starts convulsions and crying. No fever. Eating well in between episodes. Can this be a deficiency?? They've been from different pens and from different moms and dads but it can't just be coincidence. I'm desperate for ideas. No diarrhea.

Try what Robbie said!

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Has anyone found any Good info relating to this? I have had 3 deer fawns, days old, doing this. We've lost 2 so far. Each throws it's head back and starts convulsions and crying. No fever. Eating well in between episodes. Can this be a deficiency?? They've been from different pens and from different moms and dads but it can't just be coincidence. I'm desperate for ideas. No diarrhea.




What are you feeding the fawns with? Milk?