New born took a beating

IndependenceRanch · Jul 4, 2009

Yesterday we had a set of fawns born. We tagged and vaccinated them and put them back out just as we have done many times before. This time one doe (who will need witness protection from me from now on) decided to beat and jump up and down on the buck fawn.

We have not had x-rays done, but I am saying the rib or ribs are broken and the wall between the lungs and the outer skin has been breached.

When he moves or walks you could hear what sounded like air or something "squirting" or moving around inside him. There was a spot next to the scraped area that would look like something was SubQ. If you gently touched it or if he got excited and fought a little it would either pop out or suck in. I called the vet office and they spoke about how it could be a rip in the chest wall, and that "how much was the animal worth."

I know that many people decide what they will and won't do based on cost, or on what an animal is worth. Here at our place we decide on what we feel will give us the best case results.

Speaking with the vet I had the impression that a chest tube would be needed, and that much care would be needed. The "much care" I can deal with, the chest tube in a deer seems like a less than likely good end result especially on a new born.

What we decided to do is give the fawn a 1/4cc of Banamine, a 1/4cc of Draxxin, and cleaned the area and put a dab of Bluecoat on the small area where the skin was scraped from impact. And we set him back out with mom. To be honest I figured he would be dead by morning. He is doing fine so far, and I will bet he will be fine provided that no more trauma takes place before he has a chance to heal.

That said, does anyone think I should do any thing else?

Does anyone think I should follow this up with more Draxxin or another drug in a day or two?

Does anyone think I made the wrong call?

I would like to pick him up and care for him myself, but then I am concerned that the trauma of starting him on the bottle might not be as good as leaving him on mom. And Laurie said no to picking him up because she, well, knows I have an issue of getting way to attached and taking the losses pretty hard. I already blame myself for it happening.

I a posting this to share the experience and see if there are other thoughts on this topic.

Robbie · Jul 4, 2009

Poor baby! Makes you wonder what they are thinking, attacking one of their own like that. I think you are right, anti-inflamatory is probably this little one's best friend right now. Maybe a little Selenium and probiotics to help with the stress associated with the trauma. Good luck!

John Swank · Jul 4, 2009

Several years ago I was helping Dan McKetta move some buck fawns at weaning. Somehow or other one of the buck fawns tore open his abdomen and portions of the large and small intestines were hanging out. There was a big patch of hide that had been completely scalped from the area along the rib cage down to the abdomen. I thought for sure the little fawn was a dead deer walking. We too could hear air escaping the breach in the abdomen.

We decided to clean the exposed guts as best we could with saline solution, pushed them back in and stitched him up best we could. We loaded him up with long acting antibiotic and an anti inflammatory. We also bagged the fawn with fluid via IV. It was all that we could do, other than sit back and see what would happen.

To our surprise the fawn was still alive the next day, although walking a bit stiff legged and hunch backed. I thought for sure the little bugger was going to die. None the less two days went by, then three, four and five days pasted and the little bugger was actually starting to get better. After a month, hair started to grow on the scalped area and the fawn acted as if nothing ever happened.

It was this situation where I realized that young growing/developing fawns are pretty darn resilient to serious trauma. I'm not saying these results could/would happen in your case, instead I am offering you my opinion that "time" may be the cure in your case.

Good luck,

John

.

IndependenceRanch · Jul 4, 2009

He got BO-SE with his shots.

Thanks much.

IndependenceRanch · Jul 4, 2009

Thanks John, I was responding to Robbie when you posted.

Reed68 · Jul 4, 2009

I dont have much info on the trama part, but I can say this this year is very different. Our does are NOT getting along at all. We have one(our best) that has her fawn in a pen by herself. They can not stand each other or other fawns this year for some reason??????

Liveoak · Jul 4, 2009

I'm like Reed in that I dont have much help on the trauma but I do agree these are some very resilient animals, moreso than any livestock Ive ever seen. Hope the little guy heals up and does good Roger. It is a strange year indeed, We have a doe that this year seems to think every fawn in her pen is hers, she literally beat another doe off its fawn and took it over. I'd never seen anything like it. Still a few does in that pen yet to fawn and if she repeats it again I may move the new fawns and mothers in another pen

LGode · Jul 4, 2009

It sounds like your describing what is referred to as a flail segment of the chest wall which is one or more ribs that are broken in two places each causing a segment to be unstable. This unstable segment is pushed outward as the animal exhales due to an increase pressure intra-thorasically and is sucked inward as the animal inhales due to the negative pressure in the chest. You can attempt to stabilize this segment by wrapping the chest with an ace bandage however you must be certain not to wrap too tight not allowing for some thorasic expansion and suffocating the animal. I don't know how to get the wrap to stay in place as the animal won't appreciate the feeling but trial and error is always a learning experience. This will also reduce the pain associated with the segment moving in and out every time the animal takes a breath. If it is a large segment and you do not wrap, you run the risk of the animal being so uncomfortable that it eventually experiences respiratory failure and will decline. Banamine may or may not be enough alone.

As for the chest wall itself being compromised possibly leaking air sub-cutaneously, if you put your fingers flat on the side and apply gentle pressure and run your fingers down the side of the animal, like your smoothing out the hair, you will feel popping or crackling under the skin which is commonly described as feeling Rice Krispies. This is air trapped between the skin and the chest wall itself and indicates that there is in fact a chest wall injury. If it's small it will absorb but will take time. The chest tube you mentioned is for air that is trapped inside the chest wall but outside the lungs which can cause the lung to collapse and actually build pressure to the point that it collapses the other lung as well and pushes the heart and major blood vessels to the opposite side which is fatal. I don't think that is your case though as the animal probably would have already expired. Good Luck...

IndependenceRanch · Jul 5, 2009

LGode said:
As for the chest wall itself being compromised possibly leaking air sub-cutaneously, if you put your fingers flat on the side and apply gentle pressure and run your fingers down the side of the animal, like your smoothing out the hair, you will feel popping or crackling under the skin which is commonly described as feeling Rice Krispies. This is air trapped between the skin and the chest wall itself and indicates that there is in fact a chest wall injury. If it's small it will absorb but will take time.

This I think is what we have going on here. As of last night he was still alive and was moving around as I found him in a completely different area of the pen. He was curled up and "hiding" when I looked at him. Looked normal.

ANTLER VALLEY · Jul 6, 2009

Roger-sorry to hear about your fawn. I hope things turn out for the best, no matter what that might be. I haven't had anything like that but I do have a doe that tried to jump up and down on me when I was tagging her fawn this year. This is the second year in a row, and she was hyperventilating and almost growling. She reminded me of a dog for sure.

Hope things turn out right.

Phillip

IndependenceRanch · Jul 6, 2009

As opf this morning the buck was still kicking. I will have to watch for him tonight. Thanks Phillip.

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