RSV questions, please any info needed.

We have a few fawns that start with a cough then start turning away feedings, some to the point of needing tube fed. These fawns typically would come running to the bottle and some now have to be caught and forced the bottle, syringed and some even tube fed. We had a couple rapidly go downhill once first meal turned away and die within 24 hrs. We have been treating as if clostriduim with the c/d 10ml daily, b12, baytril and probios. A couple hit 24 hrs and turned around and others despite all efforts still died. Once the milk is being turned away we switch to pedialyte with some liquid antacid. Our vet is not very knowledgeable in deer or elk and doesn't have much for answers for us. He brought up today the question of RSV and whether or not whitetail were susceptible? I looked and found that they were and do not know if or how to treat this??? Half of the ones turning feedings away do have a cough and has not changed despite treating with different antibiotics so we were thinking something viral? Today one that came up for breakfast and took all his milk, was panting and wobbly in the back end at lunch and wouldn't eat any. We took him to vet, he gave cortisone shot and now he is inside looking alert and breathing normal but not interested in eating? Sorry so long but wanted to get as much detail in as possible up front. We are feeding red cap with 1/2 cup replacer mixed by the way. THANKS for anything.

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one of the ones that went downhill rapidly and died recently was sent for testing to K State. We are still awaiting results to know what we are battling for sure.

Nuflor is a better treatment for pneumonia or respiratory issues. I have also had good success with treating digestive issues with SULMET. Other than that, it sounds to me that you are doing all you can.



How old are these fawns? Do they have access to grass or hay? Do they have access to fresh dirt? Have you tried TARGET probiotics fawn paste? Try a search for them and call Jeff Ellison.



Good Luck to you !!

Penicillin g is great with clostriduim if thats what it is .. It has to be given more often but with botle fawns that is no big deal.... How old were the fawns when they were pulled from the doe? Do they labor breathing or just cough?

Are you warming the milk?

Is there snot or mucus.... or does it sound like a dry cough?

Can you listen to their lungs?

If respiratory... Daraxxin,Micotil (Can kill YOU And Fawns Obviously!! ),And Nuflor Are good.

Yes to warming the milk, and some were treated with nuflor but not much difference in response whether draxxin, baytril or nuflor. We gave the c/d as much as every 12 hrs to one that was looking really bad and anorexic, but still lost him. the fawns range from 4 wks to 8 wks same symptoms. We use probios and B12 daily for these sick ones. Today the vet gave one that refused his lunch feeding dexamethasone and he came up just now to eat so going to dose the others that are less or not interested and see how it goes. thanks for the responses, will take any ideas we can get at this point.

Does sound like a wet cough, and when the vet listened today he said wasn't much air flow and called his breathing "thumping". They looked labored towards the end but initial not labored breathing. They have access to a grassed pen with mixed grasses and clover, water tubs available and a long concrete run inside our barn. We pulled the hay out because we had read that they don't digest the hay as quickly when dealing with clostridium and worsens bloat when present. Two bloat worse than the rest, one of the two after most feedings but he still takes all he can get the last 3 feedings. We treated the ones we thought were clostridium with Albon 12.5 % for 5 days. Some have snotty soft stools and others have black paste with streaks of blood while a couple even with the cough have perfect pellets.

kurthumphrey said:

Penicillin g is great with clostriduim if thats what it is .. It has to be given more often but with botle fawns that is no big deal.... ?

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how often on the pen g and what dose? we tried corid, albon 5% and albon 12.5%. Some older fawns did well with the 12.5% but we have a set of 4 day old trips that are small (smallest 3lbs) that did well for two days (two pulled before 24 hrs due to bad storm but given colostrum the other pulled the next day) they now have very loose stinky yellow scours, just want to be prepared for that battle as well. They are inside but have a pan of dirt avail now and got probios and b12 and c/d. Most taken was 4 oz now taking 1-2 but feeding about every 3-4 hrs on them due to size.

wvdeerman said:

Nuflor is a better treatment for pneumonia or respiratory issues. I have also had good success with treating digestive issues with SULMET. Other than that, it sounds to me that you are doing all you can.

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another question? does anyone know about pneumonia vaccines for fawns? I have seen a few types in some of our vet supply magazines but didn't know if it was even an option for whitetail. It has been wet for several days here at a time and then hot and humid in between. Some nights will get pretty cool when its wet so figure we are prime conditions for pneumonia.

Try the sulmet. Give them 2.5CC for two days in a row. It will definitely firm up there stool and help with bacteria problems in the digestive system.

Do not use micotil in young fawns it will kill them... If their rumen hasn't developed yet they are no different than a human. When they are young the milk bipasses certain parts of the digestive system.. Make sure you do not give intravenously as well, this will also kill the animal... this drug is very effective but has its drawbacks as well.. pneumonia varies from year to year on the strain, this being said some antibiotics will work some years better than others.. If its pneumonia try draxxin, banamine, deximethizone... this regiment has worked very well for me with adults but never tried this on fawns.... the penicillin G label calls for 1ml per 100 pounds but i usually dose a little heavier and give everyday for about four to five days .. if they get better in before the five days carry out the medicine anyway.... Do they seem dehydrated.. Pull the skin away from the body and see if it lays back down quick or kinda stays stood up .. this should get your answer

I am unfamiliar with RSV in deer. But if it is RSV, then antibiotics will have no impact at all. RSV is Respiratory Syncytial Virus. As with all viruses, they do not respond to antibiotics and also there are currently no anti-viral medication available. The only treatment is supportive care. In these cases they actually get mucous plugging of the airways and become hypoxic. They essentially drown on their own mucous. Steroids and bronchodilators have some benefit in humans but I have never seen bronchodialtors (albuterol) given to cervids, but it does come in a liquid formulation (which is much less effective than an inhaled version). You would have to consult with a veterinarian for advice on trying other therapies. I understand the desire for antibiotic use but unless they develop a sencondary bacterial infection this will be of no benefit and may develop resistant infections in this and other deer in your herd.



The most improtant thing to do would be to isolate the ill fawns as RSV is hightly contagious and passed on via respiratory droplets. Adults can get it but are much better able to handle the disease than small undeveloped fawns with limited immunity.



I am speaking here with again little or no knowledge of RSV in cervids or animal other than the human kind.



Good luck and am sorry for the loss to this point. It is painful to read and worse to experience.



Jeff

Have you taken their temp?

temps have been normal range when taken, we did the dexamethasone and noticed a better interest in a majority of the fawns that were turning away feedings. a couple after the dex seem to be coughing "harder?" and sounds more wet/mucusy than before but they are taking their bottles so small steps forward. One still tubing and not interested.



One fawn has black formed pellets but strains when he goes and looks like a watermelon. we have tried antacids and antigas with him but he looks miserable. he is one that has the mucusy cough. a few days ago he couldn't go at all and got mineral oil which 24 hrs later he stated passing oily black paste and now is back to pellets and tight and round behind the ribs. What else can we do for his bloat as he does it with every feeding?

THANK YOU ALL for the replies, we are learning every day, every day that the fawns come running and eat and look happy keeps us going.

Very important not to give them the dexamethasone several days in a role.. it can cause other problems.. Try the dex, draxxin and banamine and b12 complex combination and see what happens ... This is a very good combination that has worked very well for us ..

Make sure the hole in your nipple is not to large ,I just replaced one after I had noticed coughing after every feeding and the coughing stopped.

DEAN

kurthumphrey said:

Very important not to give them the dexamethasone several days in a role.. it can cause other problems.. Try the dex, draxxin and banamine and b12 complex combination and see what happens ... This is a very good combination that has worked very well for us ..

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I could be all jacked up and since I am not at home I can't check any notes we have, but I think giving Dex and Banamine at the same time is not good for them for some reason that I can't recall right now.

I am NOT slamming on you Kurt. I just read the post and it jumped out at me for some reason.

Robbie can you confirm or deny this?

[quote name='kurthumphrey']Very important not to give them the dexamethasone several days in a role.. it can cause other problems.. /QUOTE]



should it be repeated if some improvement but not total? our vet told us to only give the one dose but he treats large non ruminant animals. one fawn looked better but still hacking cough and bloat. didn't know if should have given him a dose the next day or not?

Banamine or (flunixin meglumine) is an injectable (non-steroidal) anti-inflammatory drug..There are no know contraindications of this drug....Dexamethasone Sodium Phosphate Injection, is a synthetic adrenocortical steroid anti-inflammatory drug. I do agree they might not be the best with repeated use, however other than them being a littler harder on the liver and kidneys to synthesize the two drugs at once i don't think there is anything wrong with it .They shouldn't be repeated together.. I have treated deer with pnemonia that nothing else would touch with this regiment. All the deer are still very healthy and doing great..

Dexamethasone is a immune moulator and antiinflamatory which helps in cases of pneumonia as it reduces the inflamation/sweling and mucous in the bronchial tree of the lungs and improves oxygen exchange. Used for prolonged periods can reduce immune response and cause stomach ulcers. The banamine is a good anti-inflamatory and very effective pain medication. Using together for less than 10 days should not pose major inssues as long as the deer remain well hydrated and kidney and liver function are good.



Jeff