Just wondering if anyone uses straight zxylazine when darting there deer? And if so how does it work for you?
I dont dart with it but on occasion when I have to perform something real quick and running through the chute isnt an option. I will put them in the dark room and administer by syringe. Get what ever needs done quick and reverse asap.
Would not want to use if I needed them out for extended amount of time.
Would not want to use if I needed them out for extended amount of time.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
rsander32909721395935498
Just wondering if anyone uses straight zxylazine when darting there deer? And if so how does it work for you?
I use it alone on pretty much any deer under a year old. Like Todd says, They are still awake when you use this med so they can see and hear whats going on around them. Always keep it quiet and always cover their eyes when you use it.
Just wondering if anyone uses straight zxylazine when darting there deer? And if so how does it work for you?
I use it alone on pretty much any deer under a year old. Like Todd says, They are still awake when you use this med so they can see and hear whats going on around them. Always keep it quiet and always cover their eyes when you use it.
While using Xzylazine as a stand alone product for immobilization can be done it really can be quite stressful on the animal. If you have the ability to add another chemical agent to the mix it is strongly recommend for a variety of reasons.
Done it with poor results (needing them "topped off", being re-shot, etc.) I won't do it anymore. Use a mix to put them out the first time and appreciate the results.
We use zxylazine mixed with telazol. Although this is only our 2nd year to dart-- so far we are only dealing with tagging fawns--, I am not impressed with it. I would be very open to hearing what other more experienced people are using.
I have used straight xylazine for 10+ years and never have had much problems. Over the years we have had a few deer that wouldn't go down with it but on the rare occasion it doesn't work we just always dart that deer with the telazol/xylazine mix from then on. We had one doe that we called "WIG" for good reason and her and all her offspring always needed the mix needless to say we didn't keep her anymore for that reason. We always use the mix when putting down bucks in the rut or AIing and use straight xylazine in september to cut off antlers. I know there will be people that say you can't and that is true for a lot of farms. I had a friend that had deer and he said he couldn't put them down at all with straight xylazine. I couldn't believe that and went there one day to see his deer and they were really wild and I told him that was why it wouldn't work for him. Only a few of my deer are bottle fed the rest are tame and can usually get within a few feet or touch their nose once in awhile. I think if you have really calm deer it will work fairly well. We have one buck we have had for 11 years takes 1/2 to 1cc straight xylazine and he is out like a light snoring. Like Todd said, get them reversed as quick as you can. I usually get them reversed within 30 minutes after their out good. I only use it to tag/retag,meds,move from pen to pen,etc. stuff that doesn't take a long period of time to do. I have darted 300+ deer with straight xylazine over the years for those type of situations. Do what works for you and I wouldn't even try it if your deer are wild or real spooky all the time because it isn't going to work. Always put a mask on their face no matter what you use to knock them out with.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
wthollow909781395965466
I have used straight xylazine for 10+ years and never have had much problems. Over the years we have had a few deer that wouldn't go down with it but on the rare occasion it doesn't work we just always dart that deer with the telazol/xylazine mix from then on. We had one doe that we called "WIG" for good reason and her and all her offspring always needed the mix needless to say we didn't keep her anymore for that reason. We always use the mix when putting down bucks in the rut or AIing and use straight xylazine in september to cut off antlers. I know there will be people that say you can't and that is true for a lot of farms. I had a friend that had deer and he said he couldn't put them down at all with straight xylazine. I couldn't believe that and went there one day to see his deer and they were really wild and I told him that was why it wouldn't work for him. Only a few of my deer are bottle fed the rest are tame and can usually get within a few feet or touch their nose once in awhile. I think if you have really calm deer it will work fairly well. We have one buck we have had for 11 years takes 1/2 to 1cc straight xylazine and he is out like a light snoring. Like Todd said, get them reversed as quick as you can. I usually get them reversed within 30 minutes after their out good. I only use it to tag/retag,meds,move from pen to pen,etc. stuff that doesn't take a long period of time to do. I have darted 300+ deer with straight xylazine over the years for those type of situations. Do what works for you and I wouldn't even try it if your deer are wild or real spooky all the time because it isn't going to work. Always put a mask on their face no matter what you use to knock them out with.
Same here. If your deer are calm and dont run to the other side of the pen every time you walk to the pen you should be fine. Why waste the money if not needed. Learn and know your deer. Every one is different.
I have used straight xylazine for 10+ years and never have had much problems. Over the years we have had a few deer that wouldn't go down with it but on the rare occasion it doesn't work we just always dart that deer with the telazol/xylazine mix from then on. We had one doe that we called "WIG" for good reason and her and all her offspring always needed the mix needless to say we didn't keep her anymore for that reason. We always use the mix when putting down bucks in the rut or AIing and use straight xylazine in september to cut off antlers. I know there will be people that say you can't and that is true for a lot of farms. I had a friend that had deer and he said he couldn't put them down at all with straight xylazine. I couldn't believe that and went there one day to see his deer and they were really wild and I told him that was why it wouldn't work for him. Only a few of my deer are bottle fed the rest are tame and can usually get within a few feet or touch their nose once in awhile. I think if you have really calm deer it will work fairly well. We have one buck we have had for 11 years takes 1/2 to 1cc straight xylazine and he is out like a light snoring. Like Todd said, get them reversed as quick as you can. I usually get them reversed within 30 minutes after their out good. I only use it to tag/retag,meds,move from pen to pen,etc. stuff that doesn't take a long period of time to do. I have darted 300+ deer with straight xylazine over the years for those type of situations. Do what works for you and I wouldn't even try it if your deer are wild or real spooky all the time because it isn't going to work. Always put a mask on their face no matter what you use to knock them out with.
Same here. If your deer are calm and dont run to the other side of the pen every time you walk to the pen you should be fine. Why waste the money if not needed. Learn and know your deer. Every one is different.
Joined Apr 2009
1,562 Posts | 0+
cental Pennsylvania
Good thread. I have used it straight, no problems at all on my calm deer. I have had some stubborn deer that take 2-3 darts of MIX, just to get them down. It's a miracle they can even survive 3 darts, but the whitetail can be the most fragile being ever one day, then turn around and be the toughest beast ever when you get them worked up. You never know what your going to get.
Joined Feb 2013
198 Posts | 0+
Narvon, PA
buckville909771395959525
We use zxylazine mixed with telazol. Although this is only our 2nd year to dart-- so far we are only dealing with tagging fawns--, I am not impressed with it. I would be very open to hearing what other more experienced people are using.
Try Bam II...... or the new product that is out, i don't have much info on it but it sounds promising
We use zxylazine mixed with telazol. Although this is only our 2nd year to dart-- so far we are only dealing with tagging fawns--, I am not impressed with it. I would be very open to hearing what other more experienced people are using.
Try Bam II...... or the new product that is out, i don't have much info on it but it sounds promising
Yeah I 've been researching bam. Our deer are in a little bigger pen with cover and are less tame than most.
Joined Aug 2009
432 Posts | 0+
Illinois
Also tag your fawns shortly after there born. That would eliminate sedating them for that. Just a suggestion.
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
We always use the telazol mixed with it, why stress them out anymore than necessary. We used to dart a lot of deer when we started out but once we put in our handling system, probably 14 years ago, it cuts down on time and money for drugs. We only dart now when we have a sick deer or one with an antler infection, or a buck too big to fit through our chute system, stuff like that.
Joined Sep 2010
572 Posts | 0+
Indiana
Eldon we have always tagged our fawns at a day of age. Last year we had torrential rains in June. The early fawns were fine but with the 2nd rounders we had tag infection issues. I know it was because of the rain and mud. Had NOOOO problem with the bottle feds but it was all the bucks fawns. That aint happening again. This year we are going to put chips in and tag them as yearlings when we cut them. They will all get 2 metal tags then. We have always used the farm tag and one metal. have not had much problem with the metal, it was the plastic tag.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Clearview Whitetails909881396045842
Eldon we have always tagged our fawns at a day of age. Last year we had torrential rains in June. The early fawns were fine but with the 2nd rounders we had tag infection issues. I know it was because of the rain and mud. Had NOOOO problem with the bottle feds but it was all the bucks fawns. That aint happening again. This year we are going to put chips in and tag them as yearlings when we cut them. They will all get 2 metal tags then. We have always used the farm tag and one metal. have not had much problem with the metal, it was the plastic tag.
See we have always had problems with the metal and not the plastic. We now use a microchip and a RFID round tag along with a farm tag but our state says we need 2 unique forms of id and they have to be done by 6 months of age.
Eldon we have always tagged our fawns at a day of age. Last year we had torrential rains in June. The early fawns were fine but with the 2nd rounders we had tag infection issues. I know it was because of the rain and mud. Had NOOOO problem with the bottle feds but it was all the bucks fawns. That aint happening again. This year we are going to put chips in and tag them as yearlings when we cut them. They will all get 2 metal tags then. We have always used the farm tag and one metal. have not had much problem with the metal, it was the plastic tag.
See we have always had problems with the metal and not the plastic. We now use a microchip and a RFID round tag along with a farm tag but our state says we need 2 unique forms of id and they have to be done by 6 months of age.
Just to agree with those who say the disposition of the animal makes all the difference. We have both deer and elk. Our breed pen for the deer is 10 acres and the deer are extremely shy. We need to hit each deer with a mix to get decent results. Our elk are hand tame and extremely calm. I use 2cc of straight zylaxine to put down a 1000 lb bull. Have thought about Bam, but I am finally getting comfortable with what I am currently using.
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
It is cheaper to only change the oil in a cars engine than to change the oil and the filter. And the engine will start and drive away just fine with that used filter. But is that the correct way to maintain a cars engine?
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
If it aint broke, dont fix it. Trying to get someone to do something different then they have been doing with success could cause more problems for them and their deer. K.I.S.S.
I have always used bam and the new bam II with awesome results but i helped my neighbor dart some of his elk to cut horns and all he gave me to dart with was zxylazine and it worked very good for them thats why i was asking if any had used it for deer. Just exploring options on a little cheaper setup. Also have mixed telazol/zxylazine and had good results. Thanks everyone for the replies
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Ok I was going to just make the one analogy in an easy going way to try and make my point and move on with life. However I can't, and the reason I can't is the new folks who are just learning read these forums. For THEM I have to say something more.
Those who have been doing things for years and feel they have no interest in changing are of course free to continue as they are. In fact I have no interest at all in changing their minds! It is great that some have tame herds and like to promote their tame herds. I also have a tame herd. And years ago I did cull animals based on their ability to be handled. However if a doe is tame otherwise during the year but she needs a "mix" of NORMAL use drugs to be put down for some reason that is not a good reason to cull her and her offspring in my opinion. If she is otherwise tame and PRODUCES well she should be kept.
That said,
Times change as we learn more and as we gain better and more advanced tools. Drugs are just that, tools. Back 20+ years ago when I first started in deer Xylazine (or Rompun as we called it back then) was the most widely used drug for handling deer. Back then it was about all we had short of a rope!
However times change and along with that advancements in drugs we have available at our disposal. I won't go into the scientific whys and hows of drug use. I do wish to highly encourage new people to seek out proper training in drugs and the use of those drugs. Please don't take the advice of folks on these forums. Opinions are like butt holes, we all have one. Don't use drug choices, amounts of each or any other specifics given about drugs for handling deer. Get that from the vets who specialize in chemical immobilization.
http://www.safecapture.com/
I do feel it is good for folks to share their experiences with each other in these forums, however it is important new people learn certain things from the experts. Drugs and drug uses are among those certain things. I have used various drugs with deer for like I said, 20+ years and I am NOT an expert. I merely have opinions and experiences.
Back in the day having Xylazine was a blessing. Then came the "mix" of drugs that included Xylazine and the blessing seemed to be sent from God himself it was so much better. Recently I have seen and used Bam and WOW, I can't say enough good about it! But now I hear there is another drug that might even have BAM beat. I intend to get educated on that drug as well.
As propagators of cervids we hold a great deal of responsibility to the animals in our control. It is our responsibility to take the best care of them we can. I also feel we spend our hard earned money building fences, getting feeders, water units, applying for permits, buying feed, and buying stock. We all have a great deal of investment in this whole process. It is important to limit our risk of animal loss or damage by not cutting corners.
Again this is to encourage the new folks. Good luck to you all.
Those who have been doing things for years and feel they have no interest in changing are of course free to continue as they are. In fact I have no interest at all in changing their minds! It is great that some have tame herds and like to promote their tame herds. I also have a tame herd. And years ago I did cull animals based on their ability to be handled. However if a doe is tame otherwise during the year but she needs a "mix" of NORMAL use drugs to be put down for some reason that is not a good reason to cull her and her offspring in my opinion. If she is otherwise tame and PRODUCES well she should be kept.
That said,
Times change as we learn more and as we gain better and more advanced tools. Drugs are just that, tools. Back 20+ years ago when I first started in deer Xylazine (or Rompun as we called it back then) was the most widely used drug for handling deer. Back then it was about all we had short of a rope!
However times change and along with that advancements in drugs we have available at our disposal. I won't go into the scientific whys and hows of drug use. I do wish to highly encourage new people to seek out proper training in drugs and the use of those drugs. Please don't take the advice of folks on these forums. Opinions are like butt holes, we all have one. Don't use drug choices, amounts of each or any other specifics given about drugs for handling deer. Get that from the vets who specialize in chemical immobilization.
http://www.safecapture.com/
I do feel it is good for folks to share their experiences with each other in these forums, however it is important new people learn certain things from the experts. Drugs and drug uses are among those certain things. I have used various drugs with deer for like I said, 20+ years and I am NOT an expert. I merely have opinions and experiences.
Back in the day having Xylazine was a blessing. Then came the "mix" of drugs that included Xylazine and the blessing seemed to be sent from God himself it was so much better. Recently I have seen and used Bam and WOW, I can't say enough good about it! But now I hear there is another drug that might even have BAM beat. I intend to get educated on that drug as well.
As propagators of cervids we hold a great deal of responsibility to the animals in our control. It is our responsibility to take the best care of them we can. I also feel we spend our hard earned money building fences, getting feeders, water units, applying for permits, buying feed, and buying stock. We all have a great deal of investment in this whole process. It is important to limit our risk of animal loss or damage by not cutting corners.
Again this is to encourage the new folks. Good luck to you all.
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