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Eslabon Ranch



To make it clear I dont support Brians stance on this.Stakeholders need to unite to abate CWD not play blame games.



You need to be fairdinkum in your points or you'll loose credability.



The Australian Deer Association has nothing to do with deer breeding or high fence.Trophies are not recognised on the trophy register.It's just a hunting club.It is about wild deer.



The Australian Deer Industry Association is the deer farming group,Brian has never had any involvement in this org.



I have been discussing this situation with exec's of these & other deer orgs.

Generally there is concern about Brian using his editorial & QDMA to push ethics rather than a solution focus to this disease.



Please check before you profess.



Cheers Sharkey
 
Eslabon Ranch



Just tried to send you a PM re some details about your Aussie content.

It seems to be disabled.



Cheers Sharkey
 
The QDMA needs to lose all support from its sponsors and members. A stance that divides the hunting community and land owners simply cannot be tolerated by someone that promotes itself as an advocate. PETA may be their new sponsor next.
 
I sent an email yesterday to Kip Adams the CEO of QDMA. Here is what he sent back this afternoon.



Quality Deer Management Association

www.QDMA.com • 800-209-3337



Frequently Asked Questions About QDMA’s Stance on Captive Deer Breeding



On February 23, 2012 the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) issued a national press release urging its members and other concerned sportsmen in several states to contact their elected officials and urge them to oppose legislation initiated by the deer breeding industry that would enable introduction of captive deer breeding operations or expansion of these practices within those states (to view the press release, visit

www.qdma.com/media-room/deer-breeding-legislation-2012/).

QDMA supports the legal, ethical pursuit and taking of wild deer living in adequate native/naturalized habitat in a manner that does not give the hunter an unfair advantage and provides the hunted animals with a reasonable opportunity to escape the hunter. QDMA is not opposing high-fence operations that meet the above conditions.



What is the captive deer breeding industry?



The captive deer breeding industry (also called the deer farming industry or captive cervid industry) uses artificial means to breed captive deer for profit – typically realized through sales of live animals for controlled breeding and shooting, as well as semen and embryos. Current estimates suggest there are more than 10,000 deer breeders in North America. In general, breeders seek to establish one or more genetic “lines” of deer to produce bucks with the antler size and configuration they desire. Bucks that do not meet this objective typically are sold to fenced shooting preserves, with some killed only days or weeks after release.

The process of selective breeding typically requires animals of known and often narrow pedigrees to be intensively handled and frequently medicated. Bucks from which semen is collected often are physically or chemically restrained and subjected to electro-ejaculation, whereby an electric probe is inserted into the buck’s rectum and energized until ejaculation occurs. In does, artificial insemination is common, whereby a doe may be stimulated to ovulate through use of estrous-synchronizing drugs, followed typically by insertion of semen into the doe’s reproductive tract.



Why is this issue one that QDMA felt the need to address?



QDMA’s mission is to ensure the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat and our hunting heritage. This mission is specific to wild white-tailed deer, not those genetically altered, artificially created and human-habituated. QDMA believes that growth and expansion of the captive deer breeding industry could threaten North America’s wild white-tailed deer and the deer-hunting heritage. QDMA is responding to aggressive moves to legalize deer breeding in several new states and to loosen regulations in others. Previously, such efforts were limited to just a few states annually (which QDMA also opposed). However, during the 2012 legislative season, this number swelled to nine states. Simply stated, QDMA believes the potential negative implications warrant our actions.



Isn’t this a private property rights issue?



QDMA has a long history of supporting private property rights, especially those which do not infringe on our members’ rights to hunt healthy, wild, white-tailed deer on the properties they own, manage or hunt. Under the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine, wildlife, including white-tailed deer, are collectively owned by all citizens rather than individuals. We contend that captive deer breeding facilities infringe upon the tenets of the North American Model. Thus, we see this as a resource issue (use, access, and allocation) rather than a private property rights issue.





Isn’t this just dividing hunters?



The underlying ethics of North America’s hunting heritage were well articulated by early conservation pioneers such as Teddy Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold. We believe that to the vast majority of hunters, deer hunting is the pursuit of wild deer produced without direct human contact or artificial manipulation that are hunted and harvested in an ethical manner. We adhere to Webster’s definition of “wild” as follows: “living in a state of nature not ordinarily tame or domesticated.” Therefore, we don’t agree we are dividing hunters, but rather distinguishing between hunting and shooting based on whether or not the quarry is wild. While practices such as Internet shooting, poaching, and canned shoots involve killing of animals, the hunting community, as well as the majority of the non-hunting public, widely reject these practices as hunting.



What are some of QDMA’s primary concerns with this industry?



1 – Erosion of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine

The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is recognized globally as the premier model for wildlife conservation and management. We believe the captive deer breeding industry undermines important tenets of this model, notably that wildlife is a Public Trust resource owned collectively by the people, not individuals.



2 – Loss of public support for hunting



Multiple surveys have confirmed that a wide majority of hunters and non-hunters alike support ethical hunting and venison consumption. Therefore, we have concerns that expansion of rearing or shooting of artificially manipulated deer may erode public support for our deer-hunting heritage.



3 – Unnatural and extreme manipulation of white-tailed deer



This industry routinely produces bucks with unnatural, often grotesque antlers through controlled breeding, often of closely related animals. In fact, some breeders have produced bucks with antlers so large they can barely keep their heads off the ground. During this process, there has been minimal focus on other genetic traits important to long-term health and survival. Basic genetics shows that focusing on a single trait such as antler size often is highly detrimental to a species in the long-term.



4 – Potential spread of disease and other biological agents



Any time an animal is moved, any disease or parasite associated with that animal also is moved. With an estimated 10,000-plus deer breeding facilities in North America, including many in states which can import and/or export deer to other states, the potential for spread of disease is undeniable. Some diseases of concern include chronic wasting disease (CWD), bovine tuberculosis and brucellosis, though certain internal and external parasites also could threaten the health of wild deer.

While there has yet to be conclusive evidence related to transmission of chronic wasting disease (CWD) from captive to wild deer, most states and Canadian provinces where CWD has been documented in wild deer also are home to captive deer facilities. This poses tremendous risks with respect to CWD since the most reliable test for this disease can only be performed on dead animals. CWD incubation time in whitetails can be several years, and therefore unidentified CWD-positive deer can be unknowingly transported across state lines and/or among captive facilities. Despite a lack of conclusive evidence confirming transmission of CWD from captive to wild deer, there have been some suspicious cases. For example, CWD was discovered in a captive deer facility in Missouri in 2010, and in two wild bucks within two miles of that facility in 2012. Numerous disease experts agree the distribution map of CWD suggests that CWD likely arrived in several new states through transportation of live deer or deer parts (either legally or illegally) and not spontaneously or through natural deer movements.



5 – Lack of benefits for wild deer or the vast majority of deer hunters



For the overwhelming majority of deer hunters in North America who will never be a deer breeder nor have the resources or inclination to shoot an artificially manipulated, human-habituated buck, there are numerous risks and no tangible benefits of the captive deer-breeding industry to them or wild deer.



6 – Public cost

Where deer breeding exists, wildlife and agricultural agencies have considerable oversight responsibilities related to permitting, testing, surveillance and enforcement. Collectively, this consumes considerable time and resources from already depleted budgets. This is hunter and taxpayer money that we believe would be far better spent providing public hunting access, technical assistance to landowners, and wildlife law enforcement. Also, when CWD or other diseases which require state/provincial-mandated action are confirmed, the cost to taxpayers often runs in the millions of dollars. Also, unlike hemorrhagic and some other diseases, there is no way to decontaminate an area after CWD is identified. It remains present in the soil with the ability to infect deer that come in contact with it in the future. This presents a tremendous long-term risk to wild deer, sportsmen and our state wildlife agencies.



7 – Devaluation of the intrinsic value of deer and the hunting experience

We believe the proliferation of the captive deer breeding industry and related shooting facilities are negatively affecting public perceptions of wild deer and related hunting experiences. Further, we are concerned that the widespread availability of captive-reared, abnormally large-antlered “shooter” bucks could alter hunter expectations and change the fundamental hunting experience, thus exacerbating hunter declines and associated economic contributions.

Conclusion

We believe the time is now for engagement and solutions to this complex issue. It is QDMA’s hope this will lead to a long overdue nationwide discussion on this topic and development of safeguards to protect North America’s 32 million wild white-tailed deer, 16 million whitetail hunters, and our hunting heritage from potential risks.



About the Quality Deer Management Association

Founded in 1988, QDMA is a national nonprofit wildlife conservation organization with nearly 50,000 members in all 50 states and Canada, and several foreign countries. QDMA is dedicated to ensuring the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat and our hunting heritage.



To learn more about QDMA, call 800-209-3337 or visit www.QDMA.com.
 
I was forwarded an email from a QDMA director. It contained a pdf file, exactly like the above text and instructed the recipients to use this as their response. It also stated that it was prepared by 'brian'.



It appears that they do not think that their directors are capable of independant thought, and nust agree with their canned response.
 
Now that we have beaten this deer farm issue to death..

and really came down hard on some of the deer farms, have we really looked in the mirror?



Are we doing what is best for the health of the herd?



Are we keeping deer numbers well below the numbers that the habitat can support?



Are we concentrating deer to a small location by the use of feeders, minerals, tiny foodplots, a small patch of apple trees, or a single water hole?



Are we sure of the safety of the deer feed that is used in our feeders-are there animal source proteins or fats in it that we should worry about?



Do we hunt in CWD or TB areas and properly dispose of bones/waste?



Do we encourage other hunters in our party that hunt infected areas to do the same?



Is disease getting close enough that we should change our management?



Could our buck/doe ratios be a risk factor? Could the age of the deer in the herd be a risk factor?



Here is one I have been thinking about. What if you eat some sausage from an infected deer within 24 or 36 hours of hunting within a disease free area. Cooking does not stop CWD prions from acting. Could the prions pass through us and infect a new area?



Just some things to think about. It is not all the deer farms, it is what we have tried to do in the name of management and we all need to consider what is really necessary and truly for the health of the herd.



It took me about twenty years to realize that Bigger antlers does not always mean healthier deer!

__________________

Healthy Habitat, Healthy Deer, Less Antler Obsession-All for the Sake of our Hunting Tradition!



This post was by a Qdma person on there forum, it is one of the few that acknowledges the responsibility may at least be shared by all.
 
READING BETWEEN THE LINES is an editorial.



Quality Deer Management Association

www.QDMA.com • 800-209-3337



Frequently Asked Questions About QDMA’s Stance on Captive Deer Breeding



On February 23, 2012 the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) issued a national press release urging its members and other concerned sportsmen in several states to contact their elected officials and urge them to oppose legislation initiated by the deer breeding industry that would enable introduction of captive deer breeding operations or expansion of these practices within those states.



QDMA supports the legal, ethical pursuit and taking of wild deer living in adequate native/naturalized habitat in a manner that does not give the hunter an unfair advantage and provides the hunted animals with a reasonable opportunity to escape the hunter. QDMA is not opposing high-fence operations that meet the above conditions.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA believes that wearing camouflage clothing and wearing scent blockers while ambushing unsuspecting deer, with the hunter high in a tree, does not give the hunter an unfair advantage. After all, the deer has the option to visually search out each tree, looking for objects or forms larger than a squirrel plus the deer should have known better than to be walking around in daylight hours during hunting season.



What is the captive deer breeding industry?



The captive deer breeding industry (also called the deer farming industry or captive cervid industry) uses artificial means to breed captive deer for profit – typically realized through sales of live animals for controlled breeding and shooting, as well as semen and embryos. Current estimates suggest there are more than 10,000 deer breeders in North America. In general, breeders seek to establish one or more genetic “lines” of deer to produce bucks with the antler size and configuration they desire. Bucks that do not meet this objective typically are sold to fenced shooting preserves, with some killed only days or weeks after release.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; The captive deer breeding industry is producing superior deer with bigger antlers and a larger body size. In most cases, even their culls are more superior than wild free ranging deer thus creating a disadvantage for QDMA hunters.



The process of selective breeding typically requires animals of known and often narrow pedigrees to be intensively handled and frequently medicated. Bucks from which semen is collected often are physically or chemically restrained and subjected to electro-ejaculation, whereby an electric probe is inserted into the buck’s rectum and energized until ejaculation occurs. In does, artificial insemination is common, whereby a doe may be stimulated to ovulate through use of estrous-synchronizing drugs, followed typically by insertion of semen into the doe’s reproductive tract.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; The captive deer breeding industry does a great job caring for their deer by vaccinating and medicating them to prevent disease and to control parasites. Some Government Wildlife Agencies and many QDMA people rely on disease and parasites to help control the over population of free ranging deer.

While artificial insemination is a humane and accepted practice all around the world, QDMA people see this as an unfair advantage as they simply cannot compete which such tactics and therefore are left to manage their smaller inferior deer that in some cases are diseased. Examples: Yellowstone National Park and Rocky Mountain National Park plus smaller properties own by individuals all over the country.




Why is this issue one that QDMA felt the need to address?



QDMA’s mission is to ensure the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat and our hunting heritage. This mission is specific to wild white-tailed deer, not those genetically altered, artificially created and human-habituated. QDMA believes that growth and expansion of the captive deer breeding industry could threaten North America’s wild white-tailed deer and the deer-hunting heritage. QDMA is responding to aggressive moves to legalize deer breeding in several new states and to loosen regulations in others. Previously, such efforts were limited to just a few states annually (which QDMA also opposed). However, during the 2012 legislative season, this number swelled to nine states. Simply stated, QDMA believes the potential negative implications warrant our actions.





READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA’s mission is to ensure the future of QDMA by eliminating the competition by whatever means possible because they cannot compete with the captive deer breeding industry. Too many past QDMA supporters have made the switch to hunting behind high fence for superior deer that have proved to be healthier. Many hunters are no longer willing to hunt free ranging diseased herds.



Isn’t this a private property rights issue?



QDMA has a long history of supporting private property rights, especially those which do not infringe on our members’ rights to hunt healthy, wild, white-tailed deer on the properties they own, manage or hunt. Under the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine, wildlife, including white-tailed deer, are collectively owned by all citizens rather than individuals. We contend that captive deer breeding facilities infringe upon the tenets of the North American Model. Thus, we see this as a resource issue (use, access, and allocation) rather than a private property rights issue.





READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA has a long history of supporting private property rights as long as there is no competition from the captive deer breeding industry. QDMA feels that people in the captive deer breeding industry have no rights.

Under the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine, there is no mention of competition and therefore it cannot be allowed. QDMA believes this is not a free country where private property owners can just do as they please.




Isn’t this just dividing hunters?



The underlying ethics of North America’s hunting heritage were well articulated by early conservation pioneers such as Teddy Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold. We believe that to the vast majority of hunters, deer hunting is the pursuit of wild deer produced without direct human contact or artificial manipulation that are hunted and harvested in an ethical manner. We adhere to Webster’s definition of “wild” as follows: “living in a state of nature not ordinarily tame or domesticated.” Therefore, we don’t agree we are dividing hunters, but rather distinguishing between hunting and shooting based on whether or not the quarry is wild. While practices such as Internet shooting, poaching, and canned shoots involve killing of animals, the hunting community, as well as the majority of the non-hunting public, widely reject these practices as hunting.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA believes it is the pursuit of their happiness that matters. It's their way or no way. No one else is allowed to have an opinion or a choice about how they hunt. They believe the way they ambush a deer should be the only way because after all, free ranging deer at least have a chance to escape by out running that high speed bullet. Can a deer distinguish between a hunter's bullet and a shooter's bullet? Is the deer any less dead?
 
What are some of QDMA’s primary concerns with this industry?



1 – Erosion of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine

The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is recognized globally as the premier model for wildlife conservation and management. We believe the captive deer breeding industry undermines important tenets of this model, notably that wildlife is a Public Trust resource owned collectively by the people, not individuals.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; "The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is recognized globally as the premier model for wildlife conservation and management." Recognized globally by who? QDMA people?

Many in the captive deer breeding industry believe QDMA and some Government Wildlife Agencies to be a threat to public wildlife with their notions of allowing disease and parasites to control the over population of deer.




2 – Loss of public support for hunting

Multiple surveys have confirmed that a wide majority of hunters and non-hunters alike support ethical hunting and venison consumption. Therefore, we have concerns that expansion of rearing or shooting of artificially manipulated deer may erode public support for our deer-hunting heritage.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; Surveys show that there are fewer hunters each year. As more free ranging deer herds are diagnose with disease, many hunters decide not to hunt or decide to hunt behind high fence where there are healthy animals. Public support of hunting free ranging deer is declining due to gross mismanagement of the wild herds.



3 – Unnatural and extreme manipulation of white-tailed deer

This industry routinely produces bucks with unnatural, often grotesque antlers through controlled breeding, often of closely related animals. In fact, some breeders have produced bucks with antlers so large they can barely keep their heads off the ground. During this process, there has been minimal focus on other genetic traits important to long-term health and survival. Basic genetics shows that focusing on a single trait such as antler size often is highly detrimental to a species in the long-term.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; Again, QDMA cannot compete with the captive deer breeding industry's superior deer so this competition should not be allowed.



4 – Potential spread of disease and other biological agents

Any time an animal is moved, any disease or parasite associated with that animal also is moved. With an estimated 10,000-plus deer breeding facilities in North America, including many in states which can import and/or export deer to other states, the potential for spread of disease is undeniable. Some diseases of concern include chronic wasting disease (CWD), bovine tuberculosis and brucellosis, though certain internal and external parasites also could threaten the health of wild deer.

While there has yet to be conclusive evidence related to transmission of chronic wasting disease (CWD) from captive to wild deer, most states and Canadian provinces where CWD has been documented in wild deer also are home to captive deer facilities. This poses tremendous risks with respect to CWD since the most reliable test for this disease can only be performed on dead animals. CWD incubation time in whitetails can be several years, and therefore unidentified CWD-positive deer can be unknowingly transported across state lines and/or among captive facilities. Despite a lack of conclusive evidence confirming transmission of CWD from captive to wild deer, there have been some suspicious cases. For example, CWD was discovered in a captive deer facility in Missouri in 2010, and in two wild bucks within two miles of that facility in 2012. Numerous disease experts agree the distribution map of CWD suggests that CWD likely arrived in several new states through transportation of live deer or deer parts (either legally or illegally) and not spontaneously or through natural deer movements.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA fails to explain how there are states with no captive deer breeders and yet they have diseases in the free ranging deer. QDMA fails to mention that all CWD cases, that can be traced back to a source, traces back to a research facility controlled by a Government Wildlife Agency in Colorado. QDMA fails to mention the fact that wild free ranging deer have spread TB to livestock. QDMA failed to mention that Government Wildlife Agencies are still importing and releasing cervids (animals in the deer family) putting wildlife and livestock at risk due to not meeting state and federal importation laws regarding disease issues. Remember, some Government Wildlife Agencies and QDMA use disease and parasites as a way to control overpopulated and mismanaged deer herds.



5 – Lack of benefits for wild deer or the vast majority of deer hunters

For the overwhelming majority of deer hunters in North America who will never be a deer breeder nor have the resources or inclination to shoot an artificially manipulated, human-habituated buck, there are numerous risks and no tangible benefits of the captive deer-breeding industry to them or wild deer.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA believes that the captive deer breeding industry offers no benefits to QDMA. QDMA fails to mention that the captive deer breeding industry has a positive impact on the economy by providing jobs and by purchasing fencing, feed, medication and hundreds of other items necessary to manage their operation. QDMA fails to mention the fact that hard working farmers and ranchers are able to hold on to their family farm and feed their family because of the captive deer breeding industry.



6 – Public cost

Where deer breeding exists, wildlife and agricultural agencies have considerable oversight responsibilities related to permitting, testing, surveillance and enforcement. Collectively, this consumes considerable time and resources from already depleted budgets. This is hunter and taxpayer money that we believe would be far better spent providing public hunting access, technical assistance to landowners, and wildlife law enforcement. Also, when CWD or other diseases which require state/provincial-mandated action are confirmed, the cost to taxpayers often runs in the millions of dollars. Also, unlike hemorrhagic and some other diseases, there is no way to decontaminate an area after CWD is identified. It remains present in the soil with the ability to infect deer that come in contact with it in the future. This presents a tremendous long-term risk to wild deer, sportsmen and our state wildlife agencies.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; Yes, the captive deer breeding industry creates jobs regulating and testing animals but QDMA would rather see that money spent on QDMA objectives. Remember they support the notion of letting nature run its course with disease controlling the overpopulated deer herds.



7 – Devaluation of the intrinsic value of deer and the hunting experience

We believe the proliferation of the captive deer breeding industry and related shooting facilities are negatively affecting public perceptions of wild deer and related hunting experiences. Further, we are concerned that the widespread availability of captive-reared, abnormally large-antlered “shooter” bucks could alter hunter expectations and change the fundamental hunting experience, thus exacerbating hunter declines and associated economic contributions.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA believes the proliferation of the captive deer breeding industry and related shooting facilities are negatively affecting public perception of QDMA. After all, who in their right mind would want to hunt a small inferior, possibly diseased deer when they have the option to do better?



Conclusion

We believe the time is now for engagement and solutions to this complex issue. It is QDMA’s hope this will lead to a long overdue nationwide discussion on this topic and development of safeguards to protect North America’s 32 million wild white-tailed deer, 16 million whitetail hunters, and our hunting heritage from potential risks.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA believes the time is now for engagement and solutions to this complex competition issue.



About the Quality Deer Management Association

Founded in 1988, QDMA is a national nonprofit wildlife conservation organization with nearly 50,000 members in all 50 states and Canada, and several foreign countries. QDMA is dedicated to ensuring the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat and our hunting heritage.



READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA is dedicated to ensuring the future of QDMA.



To learn more about QDMA, call 800-209-3337 or visit www.QDMA.com.



To QDMA Officials, Stop trying to force your opinions and way of life on the rest of the nation. No one is buying what you are selling and you shouldn't even be trying to sell it. Get a life!
 
Isn’t this a private property rights issue?



QDMA has a long history of supporting private property rights, especially those which do not infringe on our members’ rights to hunt healthy, wild, white-tailed deer on the properties they own, manage or hunt. Under the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine, wildlife, including white-tailed deer, are collectively owned by all citizens rather than individuals. We contend that captive deer breeding facilities infringe upon the tenets of the North American Model. Thus, we see this as a resource issue (use, access, and allocation) rather than a private property rights issue.





READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA has a long history of supporting private property rights as long as there is no competition from the captive deer breeding industry. QDMA feels that people in the captive deer breeding industry have no rights.

Under the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine, there is no mention of competition and therefore it cannot be allowed. QDMA believes this is not a free country where private property owners can just do as they please.



In other words QDMA wants all hunting socialized. Only the government should control hunting. Government can do it better than private industry. Is that there message????



In Minnesota , the DNR owns 10.6% of the state. In Iowa , .4%,, Texas, .5%. Yet Minnesota is no longer a trophy state and the other states are. Kind of shows private land owners can do it better than the state. Plus the DNR's land is removed from the tax base. Minnesota hasn't broken its state record in over 30 years. Kind of shows that the DNRs plan and the QDMA plan doesn't work.



Very good post Mr. Autry.



Gary Olson
 
Found this article. Isn't CWD a BSE based disease?



BSE infection danger from contaminated pastures



The Ministry of Environment of Germany was concerned with the possibility of cattle infection with BSE prions due to pastures contaminated with manure from diseased animals (early 2000).



According to professor Georg Pauli from the Robert-Koch Institute in Berlin, there is not such a danger. Sheep which lamb outdoor can deposit infectios placenta on the ground. This material is being ingested by other sheep spreading in this way scrapie. Manure contaminated pastures do not present such danger because the prions are unable to multiplicate or stay infectious over more than several weeks on ground but are not assimilated by plants.

Not free of any doubt is the possibility of a direct intake of prions of fresh manure contamination of pastures without the way over a plant host.
 
In other words QDMA wants all hunting socialized. Only the government should control hunting. Government can do it better than private industry. Is that there message????



This is exactly the reason the National Wildlife Federation exists. Most of there members are NON-LANDOWNERS who believe if the animals belong to the public they should be able to access them. They would love nothing more then to have all private land opened to the public so it can be ruined just like most of the public land is getting today. They can't stand any type of commercial hunting and often refer to paying hunters as "rich non-residents" even though most of the "rich" license sales money goes to paying for public access and leasing private land for walk in areas opened to the public. Sounds just like the liberals, have someone who works hard and makes a little money pay for it instead of themselves, the "rich" owe it to em ya know. They would love to have the gov't control the wildlife and open all private land to the public and have it socialized, have everyone else pay for the land, habitat, food plots, etc. and come hunting season they show up. The liberals of the hunting world armed with full time lobbyists in every state fighting commercial hunting (they can always seam to come up with some $$ to pay the lobbyists). They have never brought anything to the table other then a grudge against the commercial hunting industry. When you have nothing, you have nothing to loose.



If you were to open your preserves to the public for free, they'd all show up.
 
sdbigbucks said:
In other words QDMA wants all hunting socialized. Only the government should control hunting. Government can do it better than private industry. Is that there message????



This is exactly the reason the National Wildlife Federation exists. Most of there members are NON-LANDOWNERS who believe if the animals belong to the public they should be able to access them. They would love nothing more then to have all private land opened to the public so it can be ruined just like most of the public land is getting today. They can't stand any type of commercial hunting and often refer to paying hunters as "rich non-residents" even though most of the "rich" license sales money goes to paying for public access and leasing private land for walk in areas opened to the public. Sounds just like the liberals, have someone who works hard and makes a little money pay for it instead of themselves, the "rich" owe it to em ya know. They would love to have the gov't control the wildlife and open all private land to the public and have it socialized, have everyone else pay for the land, habitat, food plots, etc. and come hunting season they show up. The liberals of the hunting world armed with full time lobbyists in every state fighting commercial hunting (they can always seam to come up with some $$ to pay the lobbyists). They have never brought anything to the table other then a grudge against the commercial hunting industry. When you have nothing, you have nothing to loose.



If you were to open your preserves to the public for free, they'd all show up.



well said , but if people think its a atack on us deer farmers your wrong. if they win this one ( they wont ) whos next??? duck farmers , quail. ring neck farmers ???? or those ( high fence ) SHOOTING FARMS wake up , its starting with us BUT YOUR NEXT,
 
Exactly what I've been thinking for the last 3 years. The problem in our country today is we are getting so out numbered by the "entitled" thinking liberals and I'm really afraid someday they WILL have the majority vote ALL of the time. Keep your powder dry for when those days come and your deer herd safe, they may be coming after them for food when the gov't runs out of money and none of the worlds other country's will loan us any. If we ALL thought the way they think, no one would have to work and be productive, we'd just all be happy waiting to get our "free" money, money from the "rich" (well, because they just have too much ya know and it will last forever). The reason so many republicans get so dam upset is because most have worked there a$$es off, gone without for years to finally get something, sometimes over several generations and the libs think that we owe it to them and should just let them have about half of everything several generations has worked hard for building up. It's even in the outdoor world, these same people think the landowners just have all kinds of wildlife just because. Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that we set aside millions of dollars worth of land for wildlife habitat. I can honestly say I'm scared to see what my kids are going to have to deal with in the future. Another term with BO and we may be put to the test.
 
You should be scared! With over 40% of the population on the government dole, they already control the vote. The democrats hand out entitlements for votes and they get them. It is scary to the think about the future for this country.

I believe this is our last chance to turn it around. If Obama goes back into office you can kiss it good bye. Look at what they are doing now using the attorney generals office to fight voter registration in Texas. They want the illegals to be entitled to vote. If you want to see our future look at California where the liberal idiots are in charge. I believe I will vote in Alabama and Texas this year!
 
Please folks,stay on course if you want to have a workable outcome.

Some thoughts from a friend & veteran in this stuff,ignore it if you wish.



Solution focus on CWD abatement not political theories.

Discredit the the emotove & sensational arguments against your industry,don't expand the discussion unless you know were your taking it.

Don't attack QDMA. Attack their current stance on deer breeding & discredit that.



QDMA does many good things & you should be trying to come to an understanding & work together in the future ,for the sake of hunting & deer.

This is only one issue,there are & will be many more to come.

Yes, they may have thrown the first stone,but look beyond that.



Please,again I ask don't refer to your deer as monsters,it only strengthens the "freak" & "grotesque" argument used against you.

You must be aware of "public opinion" & how important that is to policy makers & politicians,make it work for, not against you.

Keep money & politics out of the discussion where you can.(yes its an issue,but not a winner in the public opinion cycle,it is with politicians behind closed doors & out of view though).

Promote the positives,like the benefit to public health,bio diversity in hunting reserves,helping young people connect with nature,there are lots of benefits.



Trust me, this is being watched by many different groups for & against hunting around the world.

The anties will use & twist the slightest thing you give them.

Give them nothing.



It's sad to see deer folk against each other.

Sharkey
 
sharkey said:
Please folks,stay on course if you want to have a workable outcome.

Some thoughts from a friend & veteran in this stuff,ignore it if you wish.



Solution focus on CWD abatement not political theories.

Discredit the the emotove & sensational arguments against your industry,don't expand the discussion unless you know were your taking it.

Don't attack QDMA. Attack their current stance on deer breeding & discredit that.



QDMA does many good things & you should be trying to come to an understanding & work together in the future ,for the sake of hunting & deer.

This is only one issue,there are & will be many more to come.

Yes, they may have thrown the first stone,but look beyond that.



Please,again I ask don't refer to your deer as monsters,it only strengthens the "freak" & "grotesque" argument used against you.

You must be aware of "public opinion" & how important that is to policy makers & politicians,make it work for, not against you.

Keep money & politics out of the discussion where you can.(yes its an issue,but not a winner in the public opinion cycle,it is with politicians behind closed doors & out of view though).

Promote the positives,like the benefit to public health,bio diversity in hunting reserves,helping young people connect with nature,there are lots of benefits.



Trust me, this is being watched by many different groups for & against hunting around the world.

The anties will use & twist the slightest thing you give them.

Give them nothing.



It's sad to see deer folk against each other.

Sharkey



Sharkey: I agree with you and defer to your wisdom in this arena; I'm sure you have seen all this and more before. I have the same user name over there, so feel free to set me straight if need be. :)

If we get too caught up with our emotions, we are falling victim to the same thing they are. Facts are facts, emotions are fleeting.
 

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