What do you think our industry needs!!!!!!!!!

Hey lets put our thoughts together guys and girls and put down some thoughts and ideas on what you think our industry needs to give it a booost!!!!!! THIS THREAD IS FOR IDEAS AND THOUGHTS ONLY.....IT IS NOT TO BASH ANYHTING ANYONE HAS TO SAY OR ANYONES THOUGHTS THEY MAY HAVE......LETS RESPECT EACH AND EVERYONES OPINION!!!!!

ok i will start.........we do need to put together a plan on how to advertise to the hunting public on high fenced hunts. We need to promote the end narket which is the preserves for all of us. The race for the 500 inch deer is over.....it has happened and it has has if anything hurt our industry as 90% of the hunters out there can not afford what it would cost to shoot an animal of this size........plus to be honest with you....when they get to this size they do not resemble the whitetail animal that i believe God created them to be. Just my opinion........but we need to refocus on wht the hunting population can afford and what they are after........big spreads..........some junk.........long tines........and good mass!!

ddwhitetails said:

ok i will start.........we do need to put together a plan on how to advertise to the hunting public on high fenced hunts. We need to promote the end narket which is the preserves for all of us. The race for the 500 inch deer is over.....it has happened and it has has if anything hurt our industry as 90% of the hunters out there can not afford what it would cost to shoot an animal of this size........plus to be honest with you....when they get to this size they do not resemble the whitetail animal that i believe God created them to be. Just my opinion........but we need to refocus on wht the hunting population can afford and what they are after........big spreads..........some junk.........long tines........and good mass!!

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As an industry i agree lets bring hunters up to par with hunting high fence. Education booths at farm shoes, sport shows, and maybe a website devoted to such a cause. Im in anything i can do as stated before let me know im in.



Now has anyone read the Economic Impact study on Deer Farming on the PA Deer Farmers Association website. Well it states ( and i understand its not up to date) that the breeder market makes up 72% of the market while Shooter stock only make up 16% and Hunting 23%. Now i look at these numbers from a business stand point and say why not a 500 inch buck? Why not 300 inch Bucks? If 3/4 of my market is Seman, Does, Fawns, and breeder bucks why not breed for the largest animals you can.



My projections here are that we are currently seeing a market devided! Yes prices are down, the economy is down. Prices are what they are. I think we are seeing the breeder market trying to drag along the shooter market. We as deer farmers may have to deside whitch of these markets we want to be apart of. trying to do both may be costly for a small farmer to do. Future of deer farming shooter farms? and Breeder Farms? Just maybe, Just Maybe



Something to think about guys thanks,

Here's what I feel needs to happen in order for this industry to grow and be successful. I'm sure everyone will agree that hunting preserves are relatively unknown to the general public and even more unknown to average hunters. In order to be successful it all starts with putting our shooters in front of hunters. This means we need to increase awareness and get more people informed about this side of farming and hunting.

My plan was to raise money by adding a surcharge to every transaction within our industry. For instance, the auction companies could charge $250 for every sold lot and that money can go toward an industry promotion fund. All of the preserve owners could charge each hunter $250 for this fund as well. Attach an industry betterment tax to every transaction and it won't take long to build up enough money to do something with.

There are many ways this money could be used and I'm sure there are better options out there but here are my thoughts. Most people have never heard of high fence hunting and those that have seem to think negatively about them. My goal is to change that perception towards our favor by giving these people our side of the story. With the funds we raise I think we should develop and produce a weekly hunting program that I could sell to the outdoor channel, VS, or anyone else that's interested. This hunting program would be filmed at a different preserve each week. The viewers would get to learn about what raising and breeding deer is all about. They'll see how much care and love goes into raising fawns and bottle-feeding. The viewer will see what it takes to raise and grow healthy deer. Then they'll see a tour of the preserve itself. They'll see that These preserves are 1000 acres in size and how difficult it is hunting in such a large area. We can show all the different stand setups and how the food plots are arraigned, you name it, this not only would be a hunting program but a educational program as well that people would enjoy. We could fill 10 shows at 10 different ranches with the same host and have a drawing held for who the hunters would be. At the end of each show we can give more information about that ranch and also information about other preserves in the viewers area. A show like this would be huge for preserve owners selling hunts. I read that only 2% of hunters have ever visited a preserve. That means there are millions of hunters out there just wanting to kill a deer but they don't know about us. With this show will see a lot more business. Everyone understands that if preserves are selling hunts then farmers are selling shooters and other farmers are buying breeders!

We could also design a website that would allow each of us to talk about our farms or preserves and get some opportunity that way. We could advertise this website address in different magazines or maybe at an SCI event, new customers could go to the site and if their looking for a preserve in North Dakota they'll be able to see a list of who's there and read about them.

Sorry this is so long. There will be a million ways to promote the industry but I think an actual hunting show about deer farming hunting on a preserve would give us a huge boost. If we can get everyone to agree on the fundraising the rest will be easy. Thank you for reading

Not to be a downer, brett but this kind of tv show is already done. Keith Warren does deer and wildlife stories & the high road. Each one does just that. He could try and make it more known that he is hunting high fence on the high road though. Also he could do more of a tour of the place like you said. My thing is way reinvent the wheel this media is already in place. It would be most economical to just write in to Keith Warren and tell him things that we as an idustry would like to see on the High Road. Deer and Wildlife stories is a great show and already show cases the breeding end perfectly but just as everyone has said we need to promote the end market more than trying to pull new breeders in. The breeders will come no matter what but we need to persuade the hunter to see high fence as just another option just like going on a fully guided hunt.

If the PA survey is correct it illustrates the problem - more deer are being raised than are being shot at preserves. The breeding market is only viable if there are more people coming into the industry and still, the end market is the hunting preserve - not the breeder market. Our industry has grown tremendously over the past 10 years and that is why the emphasis has been on the breeder market - but that is changing. While there will always be a breeder market it is will be much diminished and the focus will be on hunts. We have seen that coming for a number of years now.



I can't believe every hunt preserve isn't doing all they can to advertise and sell their hunts. We did a Keith Warren High Road show recently which will air this coming spring. But that isn't the only thing we do to promote our business. It isn't any different than any business - you have to promote, advertise and talk it up at every opportunity.

My biggest job as a hunting ranch owner is to convince interested hunters that high fenced hunting is challenging. My number one question is “are the animals wild”.

Well we are shooting ourselves in the foot showing bambi being bottle fed to prove to them we take care of out animals.

The less the hunters know about breeding operations the better off we are.

I already have a lot of hunters tell me. My neighbor raises deer, do you know him? What am a supposed to say? Yes I know him. I was at his place yesterday evening and darted his shooters. They are still on the trailer and I am going to turn them out while you are eating breakfast. I paid him $1500 a peace and I am only going to charge you $2500.

Please do not take the elusiveness and mystery out of whitetail hunting. Some hunters will not care, others will hate our industry for it.

Very good point Wisdom........no one wants to shoot a tame deer........nor is that what most of us in the industry want either.......and we all know that the deer on the preserves are far from tame........even if the deer was slightly tame once placed in the wild enviroment of the hunting preserve it does not take long for all thier wild instincts to kick in!!! But you are right ......one thing we don't need to promote is the breeding farms.........they are the suppliers of our end market plain and simple......what we need to do is show the public that High fenced hunts are as challenging as you choose.....just as you hunt anywhere.....if you decide to shoot a small buck then chances are your hunt won't be nearly as challenging....now if your looking to shoot a mature big old good one then hey the challenge get more difficult!! I would love to see one of these preserves challenge one of the top known hunters out there to see if he could kill a certian buck within a fair certian amout of time within the reserve ....Now of course it would have to be a mature buck that has some smarts..........I would bet just about everytime the Buck wins.............this is what the hunting public needs to see....it comes down to this.......a hunter wants to be proud of his kill....and he wants to be able to share it with his friends..........he needs to know that he did hunt for the animal.......he doesn;t want to go home with his trophy and have to hear oh that doesn't count cause it was fenced in........we need to get rid of this kind of attitude about High fenced hunts...........you get rid of that and look out this ndustry won't be able to keep up with the demand!!!!!

Your best advocates are happy hunters. We have had a lot of first time high fence hunters this year and everyone had a great time and plans on coming back. A couple had friends that were hesitant about high fence hunting but we are sure our hunters will go back and tell them what a great time they had. They can attest to the fact that the deer are anything but tame. After hunting steady since early Sept. our deer are some of the wariest out there.



It is a slow process but one by one, the people that hunt with us leave with a real enthusiasm for high fence hunting. They have seen bigger deer than they ever saw and saw behaviors they just read about. They are excited to come back and tell all their friends - that goes a lot further than any marketing you can do.

As for me, my son in law seems to say when I discuss High Fence Hunting he says, hunting in a zoo again? So this year I am getting him and his Father both a hunt for Christmas. Now this is just 2 does but still it will be a High Fenced Hunt non the less. If we all could do this for hunters who seem to not understand maybe the word would spread in a more positive way, maybe some of those will in turn buy low priced doe hunts for family and friends and so on and so on. This is just my thoughts on a smaller scale

The industry needs more hunting preserves. It seems like most preserves have had more 1rst time hunters than normal this year. To me that means there is alot of the hunting public that would be willing to give high fence hunting a try, however there is still a bottleneck at the hunting preserve level. We have the bucks!! and we have the hunters that want to hunt!! But we don't have enough places for them to hunt. Plain and simple to grow we need a supply chain for the customers. Numbers is what we need for survival.

In Pa we have the Sportsmen's Show every year. why not set up a booth with educational information on High fence. An possibly have them sign up to win a free hunt ( 120 class). Not sure witch organization would spear head this. But i would donate my time to do so.



Just think it would be a great time to reach alot of people. Then fallow up with a possible wesite were they could go to get additional info.



Such as hepfull suggestions that they can go by in choosing a reputable preserve. So that they could have the best experience possible. Witch in return means they will come back!



Again if i could help in anyway let me know!

ddwhitetails said:

ok i will start.........we do need to put together a plan on how to advertise to the hunting public on high fenced hunts. We need to promote the end narket which is the preserves for all of us. The race for the 500 inch deer is over.....it has happened and it has has if anything hurt our industry as 90% of the hunters out there can not afford what it would cost to shoot an animal of this size........plus to be honest with you....when they get to this size they do not resemble the whitetail animal that i believe God created them to be. Just my opinion........but we need to refocus on wht the hunting population can afford and what they are after........big spreads..........some junk.........long tines........and good mass!!

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AMEN! I agree!!!

ok Questions!



1. As a deer farmer why do i want to raise awareness for hunting ranches, when hunting ranches dont want people to know about the deer farming industry? ( where they get there deer)



2. Why support all hunting ranches when there are some that raise there own deer and never or have stoped buying from deer farmers like us?



3. If you promote these type of ranches wouldnt there business would have to grow alot for our side of the industry to grow a little?



These are some questions that came up in a discussion with other deer farmers over Thanksgiving here that i wasnt sure of the ansewers myself.

Matthew, As I see the answer to all three of the questions asked it is this.



If our harvesting of the animals we raise for food and trophy isn't increased what do we have other than livestock without a market. Without a market are we not all raising animals to look at?



Sure some of the harvest facilities will benefit and not help the producer but others will. We need a bigger market for our animals and we need to help this market grow or we all lose.

We need a place to sell what we raise for a fair price, just my second year with deer so far a lot of money out none back in. The way it looks now there is no way that I can ever get back what I have invested. Good quality is cheaper now so I am still getting new stuff in and replacing the junk I bought just 2 years back (giving it away) Have farmed all of my life raised a lot of cattle there was always a market for them even though it was up and down always could sell when I wanted or needed to. Am finding out with deer it is a whole differant ballgame there, love to raise them but dont see any profit in it at this time. Could have bought a lot of good cattle for the same money that I have in deer that I am not even sure I will be able to sell for enough to cover feed cost next year. Guess time will tell.

I am afraid you are sooooo right.There are alot of people in our shoes.I feel so bad for anyone that spent their life savings on deer thinking that they will be able to replace it in short order.I myself spent enough but sure didnt break the bank with mine..oh well i guess i couldnt think of better pets and it sure is nice looking at those big racks glistening in the fresh snow...

I have always said don't spend more than you can afford to lose, and make smart buying choices. There are a lot of folks who buy deer thinking they will have quality breeding stock and then later can't understand why the deer they bought have such little value. People need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and go with what works. Fair or not some bloodlines simply bring more money than others in the breeding markets which gives the grower an outlet for their fawns and adult does. Provided they are breeding them correctly as well. As to the current hunt buck market we again this year seen hunt ranches looking for more bucks in mid Nov and early Dec. Late bookings were again the norm this year. But hunt bookings are still down from the previous years and we all know this is from the current economy. Things will be improving it is just a matter of putting yourself in the right position for when the change happens.

There is a lot of good advice out there. Here is my opinion among all the other good advice.

I personally feel now is the best time to purchase whitetail deer weather you are just starting or have been in the business. However one must not go into the business blinded by promises and big antlers. If it seems to high priced then it likely is. Ever one of us breeders if we were honest would tell you our most expensive deer do not always throw the best bucks. In fact I have some no name does that are producing all 200+ bucks. In fact 100% of our breeders have come from does that would not bring $100 at an auction. Pedigree means nothing unless it has it on the head. If you think pedigrees will make you money. Try selling one to a hunter.

There are a lot of great does out there with 250 to 300 inch pedigrees behind them that can be bought for $1000 to $1500. Or open does for less than a thousand. If one does their home work and make some phone calls there are a lot of breeders willing to sell these good does.

Concerning a breeder buck why spend thousands of dollars and time AIing when 250 breeder bucks can be purchased for 5-6 thousand dollars. You will have 99% conception and almost no late fawns.

Also before you start raising deer contact a hunting ranch and ask their advice. Chances are may have a doe or two for sale also. When it comes time to sell your shooters I bet they will remember you. I guarantee they will remember you if you purchase your breeding stock from everyone except them.

alpha and omega whitetail said:

As for me, my son in law seems to say when I discuss High Fence Hunting he says, hunting in a zoo again? So this year I am getting him and his Father both a hunt for Christmas. Now this is just 2 does but still it will be a High Fenced Hunt non the less. If we all could do this for hunters who seem to not understand maybe the word would spread in a more positive way, maybe some of those will in turn buy low priced doe hunts for family and friends and so on and so on. This is just my thoughts on a smaller scale

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Henry I think that could be the best idea I ever heard. What if we gave away doe hunts at every deer show across the country. Each state org. could be responsible for their shows. This wouldn't cost much to do and I don't see anybody turning them down. We could also raffle buck hunts sponsored by Nedefa. We could take this a step farther and video the ones that would allow us to capture the full experience. Got my wheels turning and their pretty rusty.