I know, this has probably been beaten to death as a topic, but I want to share our experiences. BAM has been one of the best tools we have added when it comes to handling our deer. As a point of background: our bucks, in particular, are NOT tame- we rarely get more than one darted without them figuring out something is going on and becoming even more skittish and adrenaline fueled. We had some real rodeos getting deer sedated with X/T cocktail, even if it was a potent mix. We never lost a deer from sedation, but our results were occasionally good, often so/so, and occasionally bad. We have darted 6 bucks now with BAM (~2cc darts each) and had them out more fully, more quickly than I ever recall with X/T. Reversals are so fast and complete it's almost funny. I mean, you better have them where you want them and have the gate closed before you give those shots. If X/T works well for you, just ignore everything I just said- I'm no expert. But, if you've ever had any of the issues I've mentioned and not tried BAM, invest the couple hundred bucks and try it. Don't skimp until you learn how it works on your deer, and I suspect you won't go back- we have no plans to. I hope this info can help someone.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Jeff231058101449284198
I know, this has probably been beaten to death as a topic, but I want to share our experiences. BAM has been one of the best tools we have added when it comes to handling our deer. As a point of background: our bucks, in particular, are NOT tame- we rarely get more than one darted without them figuring out something is going on and becoming even more skittish and adrenaline fueled. We had some real rodeos getting deer sedated with X/T cocktail, even if it was a potent mix. We never lost a deer from sedation, but our results were occasionally good, often so/so, and occasionally bad. We have darted 6 bucks now with BAM (~2cc darts each) and had them out more fully, more quickly than I ever recall with X/T. Reversals are so fast and complete it's almost funny. I mean, you better have them where you want them and have the gate closed before you give those shots. If X/T works well for you, just ignore everything I just said- I'm no expert. But, if you've ever had any of the issues I've mentioned and not tried BAM, invest the couple hundred bucks and try it. Don't skimp until you learn how it works on your deer, and I suspect you won't go back- we have no plans to. I hope this info can help someone.
I tried it this year on a doe that i just could not get out with the cocktail. She would be out on her feet just walking in circles but not lay down and go out at even 4 to 1 mix. Tried 11/2 Bam on her and she was out. I used it twice on this doe to breed her but both times it took like 15-20 minutes to go out. Seems like it takes longer to go out with Bam but you are right on the wake up, most times i will reverse the cocktail and then give worm shots and such while the meds reverse the cocktail, Not with Bam reverse. She is looking at you in a matter of a couple minutes..seems less than that....Pretty Cool...
I know, this has probably been beaten to death as a topic, but I want to share our experiences. BAM has been one of the best tools we have added when it comes to handling our deer. As a point of background: our bucks, in particular, are NOT tame- we rarely get more than one darted without them figuring out something is going on and becoming even more skittish and adrenaline fueled. We had some real rodeos getting deer sedated with X/T cocktail, even if it was a potent mix. We never lost a deer from sedation, but our results were occasionally good, often so/so, and occasionally bad. We have darted 6 bucks now with BAM (~2cc darts each) and had them out more fully, more quickly than I ever recall with X/T. Reversals are so fast and complete it's almost funny. I mean, you better have them where you want them and have the gate closed before you give those shots. If X/T works well for you, just ignore everything I just said- I'm no expert. But, if you've ever had any of the issues I've mentioned and not tried BAM, invest the couple hundred bucks and try it. Don't skimp until you learn how it works on your deer, and I suspect you won't go back- we have no plans to. I hope this info can help someone.
I tried it this year on a doe that i just could not get out with the cocktail. She would be out on her feet just walking in circles but not lay down and go out at even 4 to 1 mix. Tried 11/2 Bam on her and she was out. I used it twice on this doe to breed her but both times it took like 15-20 minutes to go out. Seems like it takes longer to go out with Bam but you are right on the wake up, most times i will reverse the cocktail and then give worm shots and such while the meds reverse the cocktail, Not with Bam reverse. She is looking at you in a matter of a couple minutes..seems less than that....Pretty Cool...
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Only used BAM a few times myself. But I completely agree. It is a step up like going from straight Xylazine to a X/T mixture was years ago. If I was staying in deer BAM would be my only choice for sedation.
like with any other sedation drug there are individual deer that are more resistant to BAM than other deer, but it has been very rare in my experience. I did have one doe that took three shots to get down and still wasn't totally out...named her Ironbutt!! To a deer, every other time I've used it it has worked wonderfully. Deer are down in under five minutes and up in less. Jeff is right about have them where you want them BEFORE giving the reversal. I've found that I can get good results with less of a dose than recomended by Zoopharm also, which cuts costs down.
Thanks for sharing guys, it was threads on here that really started convincing me there was a better way. The more we share our experiences with things like this, the more ethical we are with our deer handling, IMO.
5 of the 6 we darted got essentially full 2cc darts, the other got a dart that wasn't quite full. The light dart went into a buck with an injured leg, so he had a little less "fire" in him, but he was head-down, out-like-a-light sleeping in less than 5 minutes. The last one I darted (which was the craziest one of the 6), fought it as long as he could, but was head-sideways in less than 10 minutes- probably more like 8 minutes. We will probably experiment with 1.5cc doses next time, unless it's a crazy deer or they are extra wound up. We have literally seen them up on their feet with ears up and eyes bright in about 2 minutes, and that is no exaggeration. We add a little tolazoline to our reversing protocol, as that tip was passed along to us by a good friend.
Also, just to be clear: I know the best thing is to not dart deer that are wound up, but are deer are wound up as soon as someone works them toward the shooting boxes- our bucks are just not conditioned to feel comfortable close to people (large pens, mother raised, no imprinting), and that's the way we like to raise stocker deer. Again, I hope these posts help us all become better and be safer.
5 of the 6 we darted got essentially full 2cc darts, the other got a dart that wasn't quite full. The light dart went into a buck with an injured leg, so he had a little less "fire" in him, but he was head-down, out-like-a-light sleeping in less than 5 minutes. The last one I darted (which was the craziest one of the 6), fought it as long as he could, but was head-sideways in less than 10 minutes- probably more like 8 minutes. We will probably experiment with 1.5cc doses next time, unless it's a crazy deer or they are extra wound up. We have literally seen them up on their feet with ears up and eyes bright in about 2 minutes, and that is no exaggeration. We add a little tolazoline to our reversing protocol, as that tip was passed along to us by a good friend.
Also, just to be clear: I know the best thing is to not dart deer that are wound up, but are deer are wound up as soon as someone works them toward the shooting boxes- our bucks are just not conditioned to feel comfortable close to people (large pens, mother raised, no imprinting), and that's the way we like to raise stocker deer. Again, I hope these posts help us all become better and be safer.
Joined Oct 2011
359 Posts | 0+
Columbia City, IN
I moved another 4 bucks.....3 year olds......with 1cc of BAM. I cannot say enough about it!!!! It is awesome stuff!!!
I just had the Dept. of AG inspection for first time and the lady and I got to talk for a while. She told me that with calm/tame deer like mine I could use 1/2 cc less than recommended dosage and it should be fine. Have not had a reason to put any of them out, so can't confirm if it's true. Maybe somebody has experience with lower dosage? I'd like to know. Would stretch the stuff and save money.
jadaho, I have used Medetomidine(Domitor) on deer for many years before BAM came out so I questioned the recomended doses when I got BAM when it first came out. I routinely use 1cc of BAM to sedate and do a surgical procedure on a 210# buck, down in five/up in five. If the procedure runs long in time I will add 1/4cc with a syringe. Smaller bucks and does usually get 1/2 cc, small fawns(20-40#) get as small a dose as you can read on a 3cc syringe.
Experience will tell you which, if any, deer need higher dosages to put out in a timely manner.
Experience will tell you which, if any, deer need higher dosages to put out in a timely manner.
BAM is incredible . Our 300lb Bucks go down on 2cc. Watch the weather. We learned the hard way that you must keep BAM at near room temp , even in the dart.
I would suggest everyone try less than what is listed on the bam instructions as far as the AMOUNT of bam to use! I found out that with my deer 1cc works awesome and that really helps on the cost of it! Good luck with your deer, SIMONSON
Good reminder, Arrowed. It was in the low 30's when we darted the last three, and I kept the three darts rolled up in a dishtowel and under my vest. I didn't load them in the gun until I felt I could get the shot within about a minute. It was probably overcautious, but I didn't want to take any unnecessary chances. I think they say to keep the mixture above 40F.
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
BMAYES1058191449362638
Roger: Have you ever used BAM on your elk?
I have not picked up my new elk yet so no experience with elk and BAM.
Roger: Have you ever used BAM on your elk?
I have not picked up my new elk yet so no experience with elk and BAM.
Joined Apr 2009
1,112 Posts | 0+
Columbus, IN
BMAYES1058191449362638
Roger: Have you ever used BAM on your elk?
I've used BAM on elk and it works great! I agree with lower dosages on deer for this very reason! I put down 1500lb elk bulls with 2cc of BAM with no problems at all! It's awesome stuff!
Roger: Have you ever used BAM on your elk?
I've used BAM on elk and it works great! I agree with lower dosages on deer for this very reason! I put down 1500lb elk bulls with 2cc of BAM with no problems at all! It's awesome stuff!
Joined Sep 2010
572 Posts | 0+
Indiana
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Scott S1058381449543080
What length darts is everyone using for
Fawns, does, bucks. Thanks Scott
That depends on the time of year. What the drug is your administering. And with the fawns body size because they don't all progress at the same rate sometimes. It is not good to use a one size fits all concept.
What length darts is everyone using for
Fawns, does, bucks. Thanks Scott
That depends on the time of year. What the drug is your administering. And with the fawns body size because they don't all progress at the same rate sometimes. It is not good to use a one size fits all concept.
IndependenceRanch1058411449546886
That depends on the time of year. What the drug is your administering. And with the fawns body size because they don't all progress at the same rate sometimes. It is not good to use a one size fits all concept.
The topic was about BAM, so I assumed people would of known what drug we were administering.Sorry for not being specific. I was just curious because I don't think I've seen a deer go out or come to in under 5 minutes like what was being said. Thought maybe I was doing something different. And yes I understand there is a lot of variables. But my deer were calm at time of darting and I was darting in hind quarter. Didn't have no problems just haven't seen them go out that quick.
Thanks Clear view for the reply.. Scott
That depends on the time of year. What the drug is your administering. And with the fawns body size because they don't all progress at the same rate sometimes. It is not good to use a one size fits all concept.
The topic was about BAM, so I assumed people would of known what drug we were administering.Sorry for not being specific. I was just curious because I don't think I've seen a deer go out or come to in under 5 minutes like what was being said. Thought maybe I was doing something different. And yes I understand there is a lot of variables. But my deer were calm at time of darting and I was darting in hind quarter. Didn't have no problems just haven't seen them go out that quick.
Thanks Clear view for the reply.. Scott
Joined Apr 2009
2,617 Posts | 0+
Edgar, WI
Scott S1058441449699219
The topic was about BAM, so I assumed people would of known what drug we were administering.Sorry for not being specific. I was just curious because I don't think I've seen a deer go out or come to in under 5 minutes like what was being said. Thought maybe I was doing something different. And yes I understand there is a lot of variables. But my deer were calm at time of darting and I was darting in hind quarter. Didn't have no problems just haven't seen them go out that quick.
Thanks Clear view for the reply.. Scott
Yes after I posted I thought about how the thread was about BAM. But it is still good to clarify since new people and even established people read things and then think needle length is the same for all drugs and all situations.
The topic was about BAM, so I assumed people would of known what drug we were administering.Sorry for not being specific. I was just curious because I don't think I've seen a deer go out or come to in under 5 minutes like what was being said. Thought maybe I was doing something different. And yes I understand there is a lot of variables. But my deer were calm at time of darting and I was darting in hind quarter. Didn't have no problems just haven't seen them go out that quick.
Thanks Clear view for the reply.. Scott
Yes after I posted I thought about how the thread was about BAM. But it is still good to clarify since new people and even established people read things and then think needle length is the same for all drugs and all situations.