Fawn going downhill...scours, no appetite...?

So here's the deal... fawns were doing great and both still LOOK healthy...but both recently developed the runs (they are both sisters and will lick each other at times...which I believe means they've been passing the scours back and forth to each other.



I cured it last time with iodine in the bottles as per the directions given on the old forums...but this time, no dice yet.



One fawn is still eating fine...just has the runs...and she's taking down approx 16oz straight red cap per feeding. They have access to a small pen with grass and dirt so they've got plenty of fresh stuff to munch on if they want to. Fresh water and pellets in the barn though they're still too young for that I think.



The smaller of the two fawns not only has the runs, but she recently began taking less and less from the bottle and this last feeding about an hour ago, she refused the bottle completely. However, her stomach still sounded full...like when she ran it sounded like I heard milk sloshing around in there. Is she just digesting things slow due to her current digestive issues? She certainly has plenty of energy to fight me when I try to catch her and isn't acting unhealthy aside from the refusal of the bottle and having the runs. Another issue that may be a symptom, her feces are abnormal colored...like a light gray color. Not black or brown...but GRAY.



Ideas? Would rather not lose her...though she's ticked me off enough the past few days that it really wouldn't break my heart either...her sister is a sweetheart though and would hate to lose her if it's something that can and will be passed to her.

Thanks for the help so far...



I went ahead and made some changes...I'm gonna hold off and give them a couple days to adjust and see if things improve, but I'll answer some questions now in the event things don't improve.



First, I went ahead and changed their milk around...I printed off Rick's feeding program info and I added 1/4 cup of Sav a Lam (best I had available currently) milk replacer to 1/2 gal red cap milk. I added 1cc iodine to the bottles (up until this last bout of the runs, the past couple times they'd got the runs the iodine cleared it right up within 24 hrs). If it doesn't start working soon, I'll go hunting for some of the stuff recommended here. Each were fed 6 oz of the formula...the healthier of the 2 fawns drank all 6 oz and was not too pleased that that was all she got...I'll ease her up to 9 oz over the next couple days, but didn't want to overfeed her since this is the first feeding with formula. The other one drank about 4 oz...but that's an improvement over last night (she refused her bottle entirely) so I'm not too concerned yet.



Both were stimulated to go to the bathroom and have been stimulated almost every feeding (if not every feeding, every other at the very least). The one that's still feeding strongly seems like she's solidifying again...which is good. The other one is pure liquid...not so good. But she still has energy, so at least that's good.



I ordered a bunch of injectibles recently...so I gave each fawn 2cc Clostridium C&D antitoxin, 2cc Clostridium A antitoxin (or whatever it's called), 1/2cc Bo Se (all sub q). Fawn that's not eating so well also got 4/10cc Penicillin in the muscle.



Fawns are sisters and were born on June 5th--pulled on June 7th. No injections were given at birth (didn't have any knowledge on what injections were necessary until it was too late).



Once they were fed, I let them back out into their little pen with fresh grass and dirt in there and they both started munching on some of the grass.



I haven't been offering probiotics... just giving them access to that pen and hoping they'd get the bacteria straight from the dirt. Every time I gave probiotics (5 gm ProBios in one bottle each day), within 24 hours, they would start developing the runs again.

kmfarm said:

As far as them licking each other put white vinager mixed with water in spray bottle and spray their back side each time they eat, they don't like the taste its works

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Awesome...I'm getting ready to head to China-mart...will add those items to my list

As of tonight, we're looking better...vinegar appeared to slow them down, but didn't fully stop them. Gonna watch em and see if they continue to slow down...would rather not separate them unless I absolutely must.



One fawn has a firm stool...not black pellets, more light brown/tan but it's firm again and I like that.



The other one is still loose, but it's more of a watered down paste...it's to the point where it's not just running down her legs every time she stands up which is wonderful. Hopefully tomorrow she will continue to improve!



I think switching to the formula is going to work well... the healthier of the two is getting MUCH more aggressive when feeding (in a good way), which I think is a good sign they're not being overfed (6oz per feeding currently) and I think it'll help me form a better bond with them. The other fawn will only eat once I trap her and shove the bottle into her mouth...then she'll either suck some down or spit it out. I'm not squeezing the bottle and forcing her to swallow so I'm hoping she's taking down just enough to keep her energy and will start to get hungry and more feeding aggressive like her sister. Will keep you all updated!

By the way... how in the heck do you folks give your fawns shots, especially subQ?!



I bet I stabbed that fawn 25 times today before I finally managed to get the syringe to stay in her and inject the medications...every time I stuck her, she'd immediately jump, run, etc and cause the needle to pop right back out or I'd pull it out to keep her from breaking it off inside of her. I finally resorted to pinning her against the wall (we had a wooden gate with openings in it designed specifically for giving fawns shots...but while that kept them from jumping wildly all over, it didn't stop them from jerking and trying to either rear back or bolt forward.

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

Fawn cradles!!!!They sell them on this site under the ad's!!!

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We have one of those...I must just have bad luck...these fawns seem to be able to launch themselves right out of them. Not to mention the joys of putting one into it and getting kicked in the boys...lol

Thanks folks...will look into some of that stuff. Sulmet is what most people use for coccidia (sp?) rather than Corid which it's started becoming resistant to, correct?



Our healthier fawn is doing great now... nice hard pellets and when I walk in with the bottle, she now runs me down and attacks me for it. lol



The other fawn...still has the runs...so I've taken it off the iodine and am going to put ProBios in one bottle each day, beginning this past feeding. If it gets worse, I'm going to pick up some of the above mentioned stuff and will go that route. It seems the iodine is ineffective on this one...which is kinda telling me there is more of a problem than simply an upset stomach. It's not solid at all...and more liquid than paste, BUT...it's not running down its legs all over the place, so I think we're "safe" as long as it doesn't get worse...hopefully we'll stay "safe" until I can get it turned around. It's also still not readily taking to the bottle like the other one...I don't force feed it, but if I force the nipple into its mouth, it will usually start to suck. Once it spits it out, I figure it's done...these past two feedings, once I put the nipple in its mouth, it sucks down the entire bottle without stopping (6 oz). Other one is taking 8oz.

I just wanted to post an update to this and explain what I tried and what worked...



First off, I switched over to a method similar to what Rick is doing...I'm mixing 1/4 cup Sav a Lam in with 1/2 gallon of warm milk and feeding our 3 week old fawns 8oz/day (still keeping it a little on the low side for the time being but once they're both good and solid for a couple days, I'll increase it).



For a while, mixing in 1cc of 7% tincture of iodine wound spray with their first bottle (and 1/2cc per bottle until 24 hours after the scours stopped) worked great for solidifying them...but then they developed scours again later and this time, I couldn't for the life of me get them turned back around.



I picked up some Scour-Ease from Tractor Supply...also a packet of Arrest, but I opted for trying the Scour-Ease first due to not having to replace some of the formula with x amount of solution. Scour-Ease helped somewhat...it went from all out runs to runny paste. Then I switched back to milk after 2 days...and tar black/dark green smelly paste.



I still wasn't too keen on using the Arrest yet...mostly because I wanted to figure out how much formula to replace with the Arrest solution.



Because they were holding it in and not letting it just flow out all over the place, I figured I was safe in regards to dehydration so I put them back on the formula for a couple days with no additives...no medications, nothing. Mostly to allow their bodies to re-adjust rather than just keep hitting them with this, that, and a few other things...eventually causing something to interfere with something else or just make them even sicker from drug interaction issues.



While they were on the regular formula again...I placed an order for a case of Arrest in case I needed it (never did...so far) and a bottle of Sulmet 12.5%.



I gave 2.5cc orally on the first day, 1.5cc today, and tomorrow I'll give them .5cc...today, it was solid chunks. This evening, black pellets. They are definitely improving. Though I did mix a little ProBios into the sweet feed I have available in their pen...which they nibble on. Hope it doesn't give them the runs...