Grain toxicity?

I feed mine with gravity feeders so they can eat as much as they want. I also give them 4th and 5th cutting alfalfa and have never had a problem. A good probiotic helps as well (Shock Effect).

I am feeding my deer some of the best alfalfa I have ever seen, I give them all that they want to eat. I give them enough feed each evening that they just about have it all cleaned up by the next morning. Fawn's I keep alfalfa and feed in front of them all they want to eat 24 hrs a day/

When we talk about Grain Toxicity in deer it usually comes from periods of lack of nutrition and then an abundance. Meaning days with out feed and then WOW feed, then the deer eat to a point of to much. Most manufactured feeds are well balance nutrition but recommend that we feed Alfalfa daily. The reason for browse is to stimulate the Rumen. The Rumen has tiny little fingers that push the food through to the next chamber.We call it the itch factor. It tickles the rumen to do what it is supposed to do. Also a deer gets fiber from browse that slow down the digestive process for higher nutrition absorption. With that said it is important to maintain a balanced diet for your animals. It is tough to get Grain Toxicity unless your feeding an untested home blend, strait corn and oats, or starving your animals.



Im not saying this is the case ( starving or home mix) but these are the only cases i have heard of relating in Toxic shock. Weather Starch or Grain.



Balanced diet is the key to happy and healthy animals.

Lanasvet said:

Wow! Thank you so much guys- this is all very useful information.



Matthew- I appreciate very much the long explanation you provided. Makes me feel better- I will work on my feed mix this week and add more probiotics.



I checked out the cost of Shock Effect just now and almost had a coronary... Why do they have to cost so much???? Will do my best to buy some soon.



Many thanks to all,

Lana

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lanasvet, contack paul from shock effect , he will tell u EVERY thing you need to know about ( scock effect ) and probiotics, great guy with TONS of info, and also a deer farmer,

Probiotics are costly. But can help you get up to 30% or more nutrient absorption out of you feed.



And some of the other benefits are as follows:

-helps maintain a healthy immune system

-helps maintain pH levels

-helps replenish bacteria levels after antibiotic and warmer treatments



And the cost per deer per day is in most cases less than $.20 cents. Probiotics are not a cure all nor a magic pill. But there is more benefits of using them then not. Any probiotic is better than none but you will get more value from ones designed for deer such as Shock Effects.



Good luck

Lana - I agree totally with all the above.

I would add the detail of ''how much'' grain per day and tell you that I'm feeding 3 to 4lbs a day, along with all they can eat 3rd crop grade A alfalfa hay.

Straw - I assume you are talking about bedding them down. I put it down pretty darn heavy where I put it. Rye straw is what I use. Rye or wheat straw is a cleaner straw than what oat straw would be.

Funny thing about making a dry warmer place for a deer to lay down in. Most of the time they will appreciate it and utilize it, but not always, in fact to the point of it not being ''uncommon'' for them to not use it. Go down to feed, and there they are laying in the snow in place of laying on the nice bed of straw you just provided.

I believe straw is much more necessary/mandatory when you are dealing with a ''warm wet'' snow as opposed to a ''cold dry'' snow. This is the deer's opinion more than it is mine. I think they ought to lay in it all the time!

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as "grain toxicity". Certain things can be toxic to an animal, but I think what the person is referring to is rumen acidosis. If the pH of the gut gets too low (acidic), it can kill off the microorganisms that actually break down the feed, and it can damage the papillae in the rumen (as was mentioned). I was told once that "we aren't feeding the animal, we are feeding the "bugs" in the gut that feed the animal". If you have a balanced feed ration, and maintain consistency you won't have this problem unless the deer is very sick from something else. If you want this problem, the easiest way to get it is to feed too much corn and too little fiber, since corn breaks down into acid and the fiber slows the rate of passage in the rumen and causes cud chewing which creates a base and neutralizes acid.

Probiotics, simply put, add beneficial bacteria the gut and intestinal tract in general.

Jeff23 said:

Just to be clear, there is no such thing as "grain toxicity". Certain things can be toxic to an animal, but I think what the person is referring to is rumen acidosis. If the pH of the gut gets too low (acidic), it can kill off the microorganisms that actually break down the feed, and it can damage the papillae in the rumen (as was mentioned). I was told once that "we aren't feeding the animal, we are feeding the "bugs" in the gut that feed the animal". If you have a balanced feed ration, and maintain consistency you won't have this problem unless the deer is very sick from something else. If you want this problem, the easiest way to get it is to feed too much corn and too little fiber, since corn breaks down into acid and the fiber slows the rate of passage in the rumen and causes cud chewing which creates a base and neutralizes acid.

Probiotics, simply put, add beneficial bacteria the gut and intestinal tract in general.

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Well said.

It takes several days for the rumen & bacteria to process new feed, so start it slowly at first & build up over several days.If you stop using a feed for several days then start slowly again.

Never put "hungry" deer on new pasture or feed.



The only way I got through the drought was to learn as much about the rumen,nitrogen & proteins as I could.

How much of your high protein feed actually survives the rumen as the same protien?Has it become energy or been digested by the bacteria in the rumen?

Non protein nitrogen (urea,is one),when used wisely provides me 900 times more protein at the true stomach than 14% grain based feed per dollar.NPN is not a source of energy it just allows the bacteria to process poorer/cheeper feed & forage better.

I only see a need for pro biotics to kick start the rumen if there has been treatment,or the animals diet or environment is out of balance.

Deer have evolved with a rumen & to eat browse & grass,it seems the more we fiddle with them the more fiddling they need.



Lanasvet, good to see your here to stay.



Cheers Sharkey