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Indiana summer study hearing tomorrow

Joined Feb 2013
780 Posts | 1+
Markleville IN
Indiana DNR calls scientific heavy hitters to captive-deer hearing


Ryan Sabalow, [email protected] 2:31 p.m. EDT August 18, 2014




For years, the state agency with the most at stake in the ongoing legislative debate over what to do about the disease-prone captive-deer industry has been largely silent.


Instead, the loudest voices lawmakers heard were from hunting-preserve owners and deer farmers who have lobbied hard against any effort to strongly regulate the industry because they say it will hurt rural Hoosier economies.


That's going to change on Tuesday.


Officials at Indiana's Department of Natural Resources have asked four out-of-state wildlife disease experts to testify before the 14-member Agriculture and Natural Resources Interim Study Committee.


One of the experts is among the foremost federal authorities on chronic wasting disease, an infectious brain disease that's always fatal to deer and that's been found in 22 states. The disease — and the extent to which the captive deer industry is responsible for its spread — is a significant point of contention in the debate over how strongly the industry should be regulated.


The DNR's move is significant because in recent years its officials have not testified before lawmakers as they have debated legislation favorable to Indiana's hunting preserve and deer-farming industry.





DNR officials have long worried that CWD could be shipped into Indiana in an infected deer riding in a farmer's truck trailer. They also believe high-fence hunting — deer hunting on private fenced reserves — is an affront to hunting ethics and long-standing wildlife management philosophies that say deer are a public resource and should not be held for private profit.


In this industry, deer are sold as part of a boutique agricultural market that breeds bucks with antlers sometimes twice as large as the record for animals killed in the wild. Some breeding stock can command six-figure prices. There are close to 400 deer farms in Indiana.


It's possible that deer-farming industry officials also will have scientists testify on their behalf at Tuesday's committee meeting. Representatives at three state and national trade associations representing deer farmers didn't respond to interview requests.


'Everyone knows where they stand'


The DNR's silence about legislation in recent years has vexed the industry's staunchest opponents, including Michael Crider, a former DNR law-enforcement chief who's now a Republican state senator.


"The people who weren't really present in the room was DNR," said Crider of Greenfield. "But they just have to be. They're the local experts on the topic."


Barbara Simpson, executive director of the Indiana Wildlife Federation, agreed, but she said the agency was reluctant to openly discuss deer farming because it was embroiled in a nasty legal fight over high-fence hunting in Indiana. In 2005, the DNR issued an order attempting to shut down the state's fenced deer hunting preserves, after a case in which deer bred for big antlers were being shot in enclosures so small that officials called them "killing pens." The preserves sued, challenging the order.


Last year, a Harrison County judge ruled that the DNR had no authority over captive-deer hunting because the animals on the preserves were privately owned. The attorney general's office has appealed the ruling. Meanwhile, the four deer-hunting preserves left in Indiana are operating without oversight from the DNR.


"DNR was very reluctant to come out one way or another in public, although certainly everyone knows where they stand," Simpson said.


For its part, the agency isn't saying much in advance of the meeting.


In response to an interview request from The Star, spokesman Phil Bloom replied in an email that the DNR is preparing for the meeting and "will make its presentation at that forum."


The committee's chairman, Rep. Don Lehe, R-Brookston, said he asked the agency as well as the Indiana Board of Animal Health, which regulates livestock operators, to provide scientific input.


Lehe said he wants the issues of disease to be the focus, not a debate on the merits of high-fence hunting. The committee has been tasked with discussing whether the state should continue to keep its borders open to shipments of farm-raised deer or close them like 21 states have done.


Lehe's committee can only make recommendations to the legislature, which will reconvene early next year.


What's at stake


This spring, Senate President Pro Tempore David Long called for a summer study session on deer breeding in the wake of an Indianapolis Star investigation of the industry, its practices and the potential for spreading disease.


Wildlife officials across the country say there is compelling circumstantial evidence that captive deer farms and hunting preserves have spread disease, as deer are shipped across state lines to be killed in the private preserves and as breeding stock.


CWD, a brain disease similar to mad cow, is of particular concern. It has been found in 22 states. The Star's investigation revealed that in half of those states, CWD was found first in a commercial deer operation.


There is no approved live test for the disease, and wildlife officials across the country say escapes are common. In one case in Indiana in 2012, a buck escaped from a Southern Indiana farm after being shipped into the state from a herd in Pennsylvania were animals later tested positive for CWD.


The Pennsylvania buck was never found.


After The Star's investigation published, Long said he would be open to discussing whether to close the state's borders following the lead of Florida and New York, which closed their borders to imports last year. State wildlife officials in Missouri have since proposed doing the same.


Long, who once compared high-fence hunting to dog fighting, told The Star this spring that lawmakers had been "getting one side of this: That these preserves really aren't as bad as they're made out to be."


Scientists to testify


But on Tuesday it's clear the 14 lawmakers on the committee will hear from what Long describes as that other side. According to the Indiana Wildlife Federation, the DNR's list of speakers include:


•Dave Clausen, a veterinarian and the former chairman of Wisconsin's natural resources commission. Clausen is an outspoken advocate for tougher regulations on captive deer operations. He's also familiar with the consequences of what happens when chronic wasting disease takes hold in a state. In one region in Wisconsin, nearly one in three bucks is infected with CWD. The state has spent more than $30 million to combat the disease.


•Missouri Department of Conservation Veterinarian Kelly Straka. Missouri has proposed closing its borders to deer imports following the detection of CWD linked to two hunting preserves. In 2010 and 2011, 11 infected deer were found in the two preserves, then 10 others were found in the wild within two miles of one of the pens — and nowhere else in the state. Wildlife officials say they are 99 percent certain the disease did not exist in the wild in Missouri until it was introduced on the preserves.


• Bryan Richards, chronic wasting disease project leader at the U.S. Geological Survey's National Wildlife Health Center in Madison, Wis. Richards is regarded as one of the top federal experts on the disease.


• Kip Adams, a former deer biologist for the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department and the director of education and outreach for the Quality Deer Management Association. The QDMA is a national hunter-sponsored organization that's opposed to the interstate trade in captive deer because of the disease risks.


Who will testify for the deer industry?


Lehe, the committee chairman, said he also reached out to the deer industry advocates to encourage them to bring their own scientific experts, but he didn't know who might attend the hearing.


There are a group of industry-supportive professors and veterinarians who have testified in past debates. They downplay the risks posed by the interstate deer trade, saying that they're minimal, that it's impossible to track the path of chronic wasting disease with absolute certainty, that deer herds have not vanished in areas where CWD infection rates are high, and that there are no known cases of CWD jumping the species barrier to infect humans.


Some say that CWD is just a "political disease," dreamed up by opponents such as animal-rights activists who find the industry distasteful.


The panel session be held at 10 a.m. in room 404 of the Indiana Statehouse on West Washington Street.


Lehe said it was unlikely any action would be taken following the testimony. He suspects the committee will need to schedule another meeting before issuing recommendations for any changes in state law.


Call Star reporter Ryan Sabalow at (317) 444-6179. Follow him on Twitter:mad:ryansabalow.
 
Make sure you ask Kelly Straka how CWD came into Missouri? I want to know her exact words. If she says anything about coming into a preserve ask her why no tagged deer ever tested positive. Also ask her if it was possible that hunter carcasses from out west were dumped in that area. (It is VERY possible). The owners of this preserve all were from out West.


 


Here are some facts on the Missouri CWD for you guys to use on her. These numbers come straight from Jason Summers the MDC deer biologist.  Take special note that the MDC testing stopped in 2005 while the captive testing continued on.


 
14ptSome Facts about the CWD Positives in Missouri
  1. 21 CWD positives have been found in Missouri. All but one of them were from healthy animals as a result of a hunter harvest. One appeared to be in poor condition when harvested. It was only tested for CWD but no autopsy was performed.  It could have been sick from a variety of causes including pneumonia, Fuso Bacterium, EHD, and many other causes.
  2. There has never been a single case of a deer dying from CWD in Missouri. All CWD positives were from animals killed by a bullet.
  3. There is no known human health risk from eating CWD infected carcasses.
  4. Eleven of the positives were inside large enclosures and the remaining 10 were from outside enclosures in what we term as “free rangingâ€� whitetails. The 11 found inside enclosures were from natural born animals or what are referred to as “native animalsâ€� within the enclosures. No imported tagged animals were positive.  It is possible these deer originated from deer that were in the enclosures at the time the enclosures were built.
  5. At the time the first ones were found, the enclosures were being monitored and tested at a fairly high level while the free ranging deer were being tested very little or none at all. It only makes sense that if CWD were present in the area that it would be found in the enclosures first. You only find something when you are looking or testing for it.
  6. In 2005, the Missouri Department of Conservation quit testing for CWD. From 2001 to 2005 they had taken almost 23,000 samples at that time without a positive. In the target area of 6 counties where the positives were later found, they had taken 1281 samples.  There are 3881 square miles in that area and the deer population is estimated at 64 per square mile or 248,384 deer. So they sampled about ½ of 1 percent.
  7. In 2005, the Missouri Department of Conservation took 24 samples statewide and 0 samples in the 6 county area where CWD was later found. In 2006, they took 25 samples statewide and 1 sample in the 6 counties.
  8. Sometime in 2005-06 it was pointed out in a CWD Task Force meeting that since the MDC was no longer testing, if we found it in Missouri, it would be found by the cervid industry. Of course that was true.
  9. In 2007 the MDC started sampling again by hiring taxidermists to take lymph nodes from adult trophy bucks. From 2007-2009,  they collected 4221 samples with 367 coming from the 6 counties. It is note worthy that the breakdown is 331 in 2007, 8 in 2008, and 28 in 2009 from the 6 target counties. That is a very small sample size in 2008 and 2009.  All together during those 3 years they tested .15 of 1 percent  of the deer population in that area.
  10. Collection of lymph nodes is not considered accurate enough and not approved for use by the cervid industry.
  11. The enclosures have a game proof fence around them. All deer introduced into the enclosures must meet strict monitoring and  testing requirements for CWD, TB, and Brucellosis. Captive deer are the healthiest and most monitored and tested species of animal in the United States. The free ranging deer can move about anywhere and could walk in from just about anywhere.  They have no monitoring or testing requirements  for ANY disease. In fact free ranging deer in general are tested very little as seen by the facts above.
  12. Since 2002, there has never been a case where a CWD positive animal was found to have been moved across state lines..NONE!
  13. After finding the first CWD in an enclosure, authorities tested over 1100 deer both inside and outside the enclosure and found no more positive deer. That number is rarely seen in the press.
  14. The highest precedence of CWD in any state is Wyoming. It has never allowed any game farming. New Mexico also has CWD and doesn’t allow any game farming.
  15. The people who raise captive deer are also hunters and care about the wild deer herd on an almost absurd level. When people know the real facts surrounding CWD, they will realize that the captive deer industry poses a very low risk threat to our great deer populations.
 
Jerri Lee,

You have some meaningful letters behind your name. What Sam has posted would be a great topic for you to address at the hearing.
 
Funny how they say that CWD was always found inside the pen first and then right outside. Here in Ny our case came from a taxidermist/Rehabilitator that did all kinds of animals from out west and also only took deer from our state to rehab and those were the positive ones. Never another case shown from 2005 untill present in farm or wilds. Yeah 10 years clean and they say our testing does not work. Riiiight!!!


 


Best part about that is that i believe Michigan's case came the very same way!!
 
Gary

The people Dad arranged are all I know for certain. This may be the time when the opposition gets a little extra time on the floor. Tomorrow will be some what of a pony & cart show. The media, like Ryan Sabalow, will have another opportunity to cherry pick what they want from the days testimony and write about it in the paper to try and trick the low information public. The summer study panel is heavy on our side and will not be easily misled. I hope our industries organizations have used their resources to get some people in here to counter these peoples propaganda. I hope Nadefa has some professional people lined up to give testimony. I am sure Gary Jacobson is working hard on this and will have some credible people there to testify as well. I am riding down with Dad and our DVM. The meeting begins at 10am. tomorrow August 19. I hope Ryan Sabalow is ignorant enough to write a negative article that includes one person I know who is testifying tomorrow.
 
I will be going tomorrow and report back.

Good news is that today we got our federal id for the new association in Indiana, United Cervid Farmers of Indiana-UCFI. AND we WILL be on board with the ACA. THE FARMERS OF THIS STATE NEED TO BE HEARD!!!
 
Jerri Lee can you post the site where people can watch and listen to the testimony at the hearing? It is in the email from the outdoor writer. It's the Indiana general assembly website. It will be archived on there. You may only be able to listen to the webcast.
 
I request that everyone say a prayer for those who will testify on our behalf this morning.
 
Bell962751408431866



I request that everyone say a prayer for those who will testify on our behalf this morning.




I see that Terry Slngelterry schmuck is all over the QDMA website saying how one of the experts says they found CWD in 5 month old fawns and also one of the experts say that we should not be able to pull our own CWD samples because we will fudge the test.  And fraud ya know.
 
Hard to believe singletary, really this man is an absolute idiot with an education that stops at high school because he was to dumb to finish!!
 
Yup and I'm afraid someday guys like him and Ryan will find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time! It would be different if they told the truth in their preaching!
 
Four Seasons Whitetails962901408473782



Yup and I'm afraid someday guys like him and Ryan will find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time! It would be different if they told the truth in their preaching!




Amen!!! 
 
Wanted to give an update after attending the summer study season today. I would like to thank Shawn Shafer for the excellent testimony that he gave . I'm sure that I left everybody heads spinning he had so much information.

Dr raglan from a field veterinarian at Purdue gave excellent testimony as did a couple other practicing veterinarians.


What disappointed me most was besides Shawn Shafer we had nobody else with cwd credentials behind their name.


The opposition gave testimony after testimony with presentations and graphs/numbers. They had the people mentioned above by Sabalow plus the head of the Indiana CO's, hsus, Indiana bow hunters, 2 wildlife assoc and more.

Professionally speaking we were ill prepared with big guns. And Ryan Sabalow was typing on his computer like a madman .


To our advantage Sean Eberhart of the natural resources commission is very intelligent and always seems to ask the right questions that often discredits the opposite side .he gets it, but how many others do???
 
There were 3 from the board that spoke and a member. These situations your better to have more speakers with some clout with high recognition.


Thought we were lacking a couple big guns with#'s. Charly would have been another great addition. He's commanding when he speaks with tons of info too and a great off the cuff speaker. Too bad the ACA was not asked to be involved.
 
Sabalow tonight




Indiana lawmakers discuss deer import ban, as feds decide against it



Ryan Sabalow, [email protected] 8:52 p.m. EDT August 19, 2014




Federal agricultural officials say they will not restrict the interstate shipment of captive deer — despite disease concerns raised by scientists and six members of Congress.


That decision, outlined in a letter from U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack, comes as a summer study committee made up of Indiana lawmakers met Tuesday to consider — among other things — a possible ban on deer imports.


So far, 21 states have issued such bans, fearing the spread of the always-fatal deer ailment, chronic wasting disease.


Vilsack said new rules for the nation's deer farms do enough to prevent the spread of chronic wasting disease and bovine tuberculosis, while promoting the burgeoning deer industry, which primarily breeds deer with enormous antlers to be shot on fenced hunting preserved.







INDYSTAR


Buck Fever Intro: An investigation of captive deer hunting, breeding industry



In a letter to U.S. Rep. Jim Moran, D-Virginia, Vilsack said the federal agency believes it has struck the right balance in "improving the domestic and international marketability" of the nation's deer farms while also keeping "strong safeguards" in place to prevent the spread of disease.


"This is consistent with our successful approaches to addressing a number of other livestock diseases in the United States," Vilsack wrote. Moran and five other Democrats had requested a ban.


The decision leaves the matter to states like Indiana, where consensus is not easy to obtain. In Missouri the governor recently vetoed its legislature after it tried to block the state's wildlife agency which had called for ban on imports.



05_BuckFeverFlw_RS.JPG

A summer session to discuss the issue of various diseases, including Chronic Wasting Disease on captive deer in Indiana, occurs Aug. 19, 2014, at the Indiana Statehouse, Indianapolis.(Photo: Robert Scheer/The Star)



In Indiana, lawmakers heard four hours of testimony Tuesday, but the panel appeared no closer to making a decision on that front.


Both the study session and Moran's concerns were in response to an Indianapolis Star investigation that uncovered case after case linking the industry to the spread of chronic wasting disease.


Lawmakers heard from four wildlife disease experts called to testify by the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. They cited documented cases in which the interstate captive-deer industry was linked to the spread of diseases. They also testified that CWD is spreading rapidly among wild herds in some states and states have spent millions of dollars trying to contain the disease.


CWD, a brain disease similar to mad cow, has been found in 22 states. The Star's investigation revealed that in half of those states, CWD was found first in a commercial deer operation. There is no approved live test for the disease, and wildlife officials across the country say escapes from deer farms and preserves are common.


But the panel also heard testimony from four in-state veterinarians who said current disease testing requirements from the Indiana Board of Animal Health are more than adequate.


"We have probably one of the most robust regulatory structures in the country as far as keeping CWD out," said Darryl Ragland, a Purdue University veterinarian who works for deer farmers. "We have a program in place that is working."


While the committee was largely silent, and asked only a few questions, it became clear that at least some lawmakers were leaning in one direction.


State Rep. Sean Eberhart, chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee, repeatedly pointed out that there's nothing to stop wild deer infected CWD from walking into the state, so why crack down on deer farmers.


Bryan Richards, chronic wasting disease project leader at the U.S. Geological Survey, responded that CWD spreads slowly in the wild, but if "we put it in a truck, we can move disease at 65, 70 mph across the landscape."


"Will it get here over time? Certainly a possibility. Do you want it sooner or later?" Richards said. "That's something I believe that through preventative measures, you can have an impact on time of arrival."


Shawn Schafer, executive director of the North American Deer Farmers Association, countered such testimony by saying that his industry is participating in new research that may some day create a CWD vaccine and a reliable live test for the disease. Schafer noted his industry also was instrumental in developing a blood test for bovine TB that has dramatically reduced its spread in captive deer. Vilsack in his letter also noted that there have been no cases of TB in a deer farm since 2009.


"The industry is here for the solution," Schafer said. "We're not part of the problem."


Myron Miller, vice president of the Indiana Deer and Elk Farmers Association, also explained how far farmers are willing to go to keep their herds disease free. He described how he had to shoot a $10,000 breeding doe that had come from an out-of-state facility suspected of having CWD so that it could be tested for the disease.


He said that he was glad to do so to ensure his herds were free of the disease, but that didn't make any less emotionally and financially painful.


"We bore that burden," Miller said.


The committee will reconvene at a later date to determine whether to issue recommendations to the legislature for a possible change in state law.


Call Star reporter Ryan Sabalow at (317) 444-6179. Follow him on Twitter:mad:ryansabalow.



http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014/08/19/lawmakers-discuss-deer-import-ban-feds-decide/14312391/
 
Kip Adams, QDMA ,Sabalow, and others are no more than environmental terrorists.  Are they any different than the Talaban or Iceis in the Middle-East?  They are out to destroy any one that does not believe in their radical beliefs or views of a religion.  Are Kip Adams, QDMA, Sabalow, and others any different?  If we do not fit into their model of what "their" opinion of a hunting experience should be, they condemn us.  They are going into direct opposition of what the founders of Pope & Youngs mission statement, which basically says ,  no one, or the masses,  should not tell you what a good hunting experience should be.  Funny how things change over 100 years.  Most of us were born on farms and have lived the country life, raised and cared for livestock our entire lives.  It's funny how these "weekend" warriors think they have all the answers, and know more about livestock, than we do.