Where do you see our Indusrty heading!?

Dennis, I think you're spot on. The breeding industry will stay strong through these economic times, imo. Although, the middle to low end genetics are taking a hit right now, the high end stuff has continued to hold it's value. As long as there are people like you mentioned that just want to get there trophies and get back the the shooter market will continue to stay strong as well.

I have to agree with DD and Droptine. I feel the market will peak out once that 500" mark is met. There is a large portion of the industry striving for the non typical look and thats great. Those animals are very unique but, I am a typical man. I am looking ahead and banking on the shooter industry always being available. Once 500" is met I can see people being like, now what? Our deer are larger than elk, now what? My buck is laying out there on his side because he cant hold up his 500" rack. Scores are getting so high that a portion of the industry cant even afford to invest into those genetics. These bucks are truely special but if we can meet that 500" goal I would love to see the 250" CLEAN TYPICAL goal be reached. I think the shooter market is always going to be there with as many people that want to enjoy the outdoors and hunt but dont have the time. People cant afford to be shooting 300 400 or 500" deer. So the typical shooter bucks are going to be the crave in the years to come I believe. I would love to be the man with the 1st 500" non typ but I would be a happier man when Im done if I had the 1st 250" 7x7 or 8x8 without a single sticker. This is my goal and I belive it is just as hard to reach if not harder than its going to be to reach 500. Goodluck to everyone this year and hopefully goals are met and higher goals are set. The deer industry is more exciting than anything else I can think of and I cant wait to see what pops up out of some heads this year!! Goodluck!!

The deer industry is more exciting than anything else I can think of and I cant wait to see what pops up out of some heads this year!!

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that's it! No other industry is this exciting. We've raised cattle all my life and never did we sit around looking forward to see how big a bull would get The best part of this business is just loving what you do.

I have raised beef, chickens, and hogs. I can't say any of them could capture my attention like the whitetail. I find myself staring out the second story window at the deer like a pendulum swinging back and forth in front of me. It may get exponentially worse once I start seeing racks!

T.R.O



agree completely. Your post is a near mirror of my previous post on the old site. Many of us are right on in the same lines of thinking to the "T".



Who will do the clean 250" typical this year? Will it Happen? Will 500" happen this year? There are alot of bucks to watch this year to see if these records can be broke. I don't think it will be me, but this will be an awesome year to follow the growth threads.

I think the industry is heading to more selective breeding.. just because we can cross two lines should we, what will the outcome be, does it benefit the species?, as we understand breeding more and more we become the caretakers of the species, although there will be a wall that limits antlers size just by sheer size and weight and the capacity of the deer to survive and thrive with antlers to large for their enviroment.

I am NOT degrading anybody by saying this. But I saw Big Jake when he had his 344" rack, matter of fact, I sawed him off. Until then he seemed miserable. He couldn't even hold his head staight. I watched the Flee's video this last year, and Rocky would not hold his head up for very long. I breed for frame but love the non-typicals. Sometimes it seems like they cant wait to go through the chute and hear the saw wire. Is this healthy for them???

I went in to get him with wheel barrow to take in barn to pull semen. He was a LOAD. By the time I sawed him off, my arms were give plum out. Then we put him back, picked up Romeo, then I had to saw him off. I couldn't fell my arms for a hour.



I used Logan this year , but I dont think it stuck????

I agree with the push for the typical buck. The breeding industry has been breeding for the non-typical and advanced very quickly.



As we start to think about typical deer, even the typical bucks we see on here have some very non-typical bucks in their pedigree. Forked g2's seem to be prevalent. Stickers are almost always the case as the bucks get older. That makes sense since they score more.



On our farm, we breed for both typicals and non-typicals. I like and my hunters like variety. On a fairly typical buck, I don’t mind the forks and stickers. I like score because it pays more. But the clean buck also intrigues me!



But where are we as an industry on the clean typical side? Are we even better than wild deer? Maybe….. Maybe not!



If you want to talk about clean typical deer, what you are really talking about is a deer scored NET Boone and Crocket. That’s a tough score with deductions for differences side to side on every measurement AND deductions for ANY extra points. It takes a REALLY big, clean deer to make 200 NET Boone and Crocket!



Take a deer like Lethal Weapon for example. He grosses 270 2/8 and has a typical SCI score is 242 4/8. But if you netted him out B&C, lets see what happens. He has 22 1/8 difference from side to side and 27-6/8 inches of extras. That means he nets 192 5/8! Almost every buck behind fence will fall below the 200 inch mark when netted B&C. The only bucks I know of in captivity that netted over 200 were in Texas, Robert Williams owned one and I can’t recall who owned the other.



So what I’m saying is that I think 250 net B&C is a LONG way off! But its something that we can breed for!



Just for fun lets see what people think is the highest scoring NET B&C buck out there. If you can provide a gross SCI scoresheet, I can net them out for you. I’d be willing to bet right now that there are none out there that break the Wild Net typical record held by the Milo Hansen Buck. I think its 212 and some change.



Let’s have some fun. Don H, I know you’ve been looking for the biggest one. What have you found? Who has the biggest one?

Sam,

Great post. I think that you make some very good points that maybe we sometimes forget about in our industry of high scores. A buck with a 200" typical frame is absolutely MASSIVE! I don't know this bucks net score, but I do believe that Bambi Escalade would have to have over a 200" typical frame. He's very clean and scores 242" with just a few inches of splits. Barkley and Cole Young's Hoss scored 291"@3 gross and had 240" of typical mainframe 8x6. Im sure that there are others, but those are two that come to mind.

Reed, a battery powered reciprocating saw works great and your arms don't get tired.

Thanks Mike. Hoss would be at 242 Minus (the difference of 46) which is 196 minus the difference from side to side which on an 8X6 is at least 20. So he would net in the 170's.



Escalade would be close to 200. He looks to have about 25-30 inches of extras but is pretty even side to side. I would guess him right around the 200 inch mark NET. Thats just guessing from the picture and video.

Sam,

How do you think Maxbo Radar or Pretty Boy Floyd would hold up?

Sam you make some VERY good points yet not long ago on the forum someone said 200 inch genetic's were old hat and no longer any good . I guess when we're talking typicals 200 is pretty darn impressive isn't it ? Your right the Hanson buck was 213 5/8 but the Wi buck shot by Jim Jordan was an awesome 206 5/8 with two less points. I would hunt a very long time to have the honor of shooting or even seeing a 10 point buck that could score over 206 inches yet on the forums it's like 200+ genetic's are shunned . I'm thinking if someone consitantly could breed 200 plus typicals you'd be making some very nice cash . Just my opinion .

Pretty Boy Floyd has some non-typical down low and a few kickers. I might score him in Branson. He is one I thought of right off the bat! Mark and Steve won't care! It will be interesting to see! I'll bet he is around 200 net.



I need a couple of pictures or a scoresheet (better) of Maxbo Radar to guess on him.



Wooden, a pen full of "old hats" would be nice pocket change!

I think this is what we are talking about gross 217 net 193 ,loses 22 inches from side to side diff,

27:deer 1994

Jed should be real close







Maxbo Radar looks good in the picture on Whitetail exchange.



Maximus







John David











There are still more that we have been experimenting with to get the clean typical look. Would be nice to hit the 250" mark in one of these crosses. I guess the next thing would be to have one pass it down. There is only a handful of the real clean stuff out there. I guess the look is more important than the actual "clean" rack though. Like you said Sam it is nearly impossible to get a 250" rack with no stickers or splits.

Sam,



I agree after looking back through the post it is going to be hard pressed to find many bucks out there to meet or beat the Hanson buck after side to side kicks in. If Jed stays clean this year maybe. Maximus I think might be real close if not over. Maxbo Radar looks to be over on net. The old Pepsi buck would have be close. Redoy Weatherby would have been right there but he had a huge added brow on one side that might have knocked him below 212" but he was real close side to side. There are a few others but they only come close when they are netted out. We have had a few local bucks come close but the next year in come the sticks and splits.