Today's velvet antler events with an almost deadly twist

OK the first thing I need to do is thank everyone who helped me today. When I needed some advise I texted some friends and they responded with helpful comments and assistance.


Thank you to Karl Schreiner and his girl friend Lisa for all the help in the field today, and the hard work everyday caring for my herd! A great friend and herd manager!


Michael Heiter called me back while in the middle of an event he was at and gave me great advise. Glen Dice was very informative with his list of items to have on hand. I even called him while in the field to discuss what was happening. Rod Haehlke, Dirk Stotlz, Shannon Thiex, Adam Rowland, Jarrod Washburn and Josh Newton all replied back as well with information. This industry is filled with some great people and it is awesome to have such good friends available to bounce ideas around with. I have been through similar issues in the past but it had been about 5 years since I really had to do this. A good refresher was needed and I thank everyone!


 


I have attached some pics of what took place. I have a list of drugs we used as well today.


I am NOT an expert and I am NOT saying what we did today was right, wrong, or anything in the middle. This account of events is designed to just give some perspective of what WE DID and what took place for us.


 


I had 2 one year old bucks with antler issues. One was major and one was minor.


The major one had his left antler broken down along side his face but it had already reattached and I decided to leave it as is. His right antler about 4" up from the base was broken and about 5" above the break was hanging mostly by velvet. There was extensive damage to the area around and below the break.


First we gave the following drugs.


5cc Vitamin K Half SubQ and half IM. (This helps with blood clotting)


2cc Draxxin IM


1.5cc Banamine IM


5cc Penicillin SubQ


1cc Long Range (Theory was it might helps deter bugs)


Using Betadine wash with clean rags and some water we cleaned the entire antler.


Then we put copper wire around the antler at the base below the area I intended to cut off. Used a pliers to twist it down tight to stop blood flow.


We cut off the 5" above the break.


We then took a sharp scissors and trimmed off the velvet from the antler to peel it down towards the level I later sawed the main interior bone off at. The theory at the time was to lay the long flap of velvet over the nub and stitch or super glue it down to encase the nub top.


We then sawed off the damaged part of the antler interior bone that was damaged.


Blood flow was not as bad as I have seen before with antlers. This was in part because he was only a yearling and had fairly round bases so no ridges that prevented a good seal by the copper wire twist. I used one round tooth pick to plug a blood vessel. I used some blood stop powder as well. I was prepared to use a small hand torch with a putty knife to heat and cauterize the blood vessels however I didn't really need to do that.


Note, some patients and time is needed to stop the blood flow. A few minutes of pressure might be needed to get the last small leaks stopped.


We then started looking at sewing the flap of velvet or super gluing it down. However I felt in one spot I might not get a good seal and feared it would be a place bugs and infection would start. I then opted to cut off all the loose extra velvet and get the blood stopped.


Then we dried the area and flushed with penicillin.


Then sprayed the entire antler remaining with Aluma Sheild.


Then we sprayed bug spray designed to be used on the animals around the ears, neck, and rubbed some on the forehead and nose area. We did NOT spray any bug spray on the Aluma Sheild because sometimes bug spray can cause the shield to breakdown. (Thanks Glen!)


 


GREAT CARE was taken to use towels and rags to avoid having ANY blood or debris from drugs or powder ending up on the deers face or neck. This helps keep bugs away after the work is done. Also take great care with the eyes. Blood stop powder can cause blindness.


 


We reversed him and within 5 minutes he was up and walking around. Within 10 minutes he was at the feeder eating.


We used BAM for the tranq'ing. Love that drug!


 


NOW, all that said. Here is where our day went to hell in a handbag.


The other buck who had minor damage really, but showed signs of some infection was next. He is a bottle fed. (Not by choice. It was because when born he was pretty much dead and needed care. Plus being a 3/4 brother to Cardiac Kid I didn't want to lose him)


We tranq'ed him and gave him a microchip.


Then 1cc Long Range.


5cc Penicillin


1.5cc Banamine


2cc Draxxin


He did not get Vit K.


We flushed the antler damaged area with some penicillin and then sprayed on Aluma Shield. Then the bug spray. Again keeping the neck and face clean of blood and debris. During this he had a reaction to something and stopped breathing. Karl did chest compressions on his side and I breathed into his nose. He came back and started breathing and eventually was up and around again. Glad at that moment he was a tame bottle fed buck so we could tend to him while he came out of the sleeper drug. I have no idea why he had the reaction however I suspect it was the penicillin. No real reason for that suspicion but I kinda have a gut feeling it was that.


My main concern now is he did regurgitate and some green juice came out after he was up. We will have to watch for pneumonia now.


I have for many years talked about having that drug for reactions on hand and never got it. I WILL BE HAVING IT FROM NOW ON!!!


Again, I am not an expert and sure as heck don't feel this is the way to do things. Only sharing what all took place in an effort to help others out there. I welcome discussion by those of you who have had both good and bad experiences doing similar antler and drug stuff. This topic has been "tagged" using the words, velvet damage, velvet repair and drug reaction. This is so others can find this thread if they need help so please share your experiences with others.


 


Items I had on hand before starting besides the drugs, needles and syringes were...


Small hand butchers style saw.


Putty knife and hand blow torch to use as an iron on blood vessels.


LOTS of clean rags and towels. Did I say LOTS??? This buck wasn't bad but some are horrendous.


Round wooden tooth picks.


Copper wire, rubber tubing, plastic zip ties. Use what works for your issue at hand. It might need two tourniquets to really help stop blood flow.


Pliers.


Sharp scissors and a sharp surgical scalpel.


Super glue and or a suture thread and needle.


Bug spray safe for livestock.


Aluma Shield.


 


Hope this helps!


Roger

Thanks for the info roger I had to do it for the first time ever last year. It is definitely an experience to say the least. Good luck in the recovery on both bucks.


Another medicine we use on pretty much any wound is a cream called Swat it is a fly killer and repellant. It is commonly used for horses with saddle sores. It also has medication in it for infection and a healing drug. About 10 bucks a can works very well and cheap enough to lather it on. Just my two cents

Great info roger! I am glad it all worked out! Keep us posted on the bucks. On a side note, i am still trying to picture you giving mouth to mouth. LOL!! And the anti's don't think we care about our deer!!!!

Great job Roger. Definately one to bookmark. We had a doe react to medication once in the same manner, it did not turn out as well. We had a friend that was an EMT in route with an Epi-pen. He pulled in as she took her last breath. We now keep them on hand. Live and learn, but I would recommend everyone having epinephrine on hand. You never know when a reaction might occur. Hope everything turns out great.

Glad to hear all ended well. They will breath very shallow under sedation with BAM. If they were real calm when darted and bottle fed,I have thought some were dead. I have also had them react to anesthetics. When this happens they will immediately start to bloat up. I have always immediately reversed them and gave them ringers. They will burp over and over again while waking up very smelly burps.

I would add lactated ringers to the list and would always give a bag to adult deer sedated this time of year. It is very helpful to the animals recovery and can fend off shock and capture myopathy. Hog castrating bands are also very helpful as tourniquets on most smaller horn. Make sure to practice with the applicator pliers and bands on a shed antler before trying to band the velvet antler.

Sounds like you have some great friends and you did a fine job.

Happy Fathers Day to All tomorrow

Good Info Roger had to do it a couple years ago ..........and I don't know bout you but for me I was nervous as a hell and it's very stressful also had to help on a few other farms and even though they were not my bucks still very nerve racking!


 


Hope they fully recover for yah! an Amish guy once told me a yearling buck has no respect for his rack and can cause a guy alot  of grief    

Thanks for sharing Roger !! I was curious why you used copper,could you also use wire for the tourniquet?

Thanks Rodger! Very kind of you to include your detailed list and provide photos as well. We can all learn something from your situation. I know exactly what your talking about when you tried to leave the excess velvet over his antler to sew up. I tried that two years ago while working on an antler repair. I looked at sewing it and thought, no way! That looks like a bug breeding bed, so I removed it, covered heavily with aluma shield bandage. He scabbed up the next day, and within days their was new velvet over the wound.

Rodger, I highly recommend SWAT, the cream that freedom suggested. He got me on to it last summer when we were fixing up a buck at my place, I love it, because flys HATE it. It's a cream and it will absorb into the velvet and last a long time. For only 10or 11 dollars a can, buy 3 or 4 cans at tractor supply and you'll be set for a couple repairs if anything comes up again.

Also, I have never witnessed a reaction to any drugs on my farm as of yet, but like you said, you never did either and then it came up. I actually got a bottle of epi a few years ago just to be prepared. It's expired now, so your post was a good reminder that I should get another bottle, it's a cheap drup that can save an expensive deer. Thanks again Rodger.

Great post! Never fun having to do this and very very nerve racking with so much blood flow. One thing I have been using that works great is like bell said castration bands, I have also used zip ties, and tooth picks placed in veins. One other thing I use after the damage is removed is pine tar. Place it over the wound and ensures no bugs are getting through! Again, great topic.

Ry-O933331402841559

Great post! Never fun having to do this and very very nerve racking with so much blood flow. One thing I have been using that works great is like bell said castration bands, I have also used zip ties, and tooth picks placed in veins. One other thing I use after the damage is removed is pine tar. Place it over the wound and ensures no bugs are getting through! Again, great topic.


Thanks for the input. I am glad everyone is sharing their thoughts and experiences.

Some years back I did the pine tar trick also. What I found was it was where the infection started underneath. You could see whiteish yellowish foam around the edges. That time I knocked the buck down a second time to remove the tar and clean and treat the infection. That memory was another reason I was leary of capping the nub with the extra velvet. I opted to try the air dry method this time.

Each time you could try another approach and get good or bad results. It seems there often is no right or wrong way. Like Glen told me yesterday, "Just go with your instincts." One thing is for sure. Everyday is a learning experience.

kings whitetails933291402837061

Thanks for sharing Roger !! I was curious why you used copper,could you also use wire for the tourniquet?


Copper over other wire is softer and can form slightly better to irregularities in antler shape. But remember wire is not always the best or only choice. Yesterday it happen to work well.

The IV tubing from a bag of fluids also works great for tying around the bases to stop blood flow, it is tough and will contract into all the bumps and grooves.


Matt

I use the large rubber bands that we use around the horse AV's  they work GREAT


 


also what people do not realize is that dexamethasone is an EXCELLENT drug to use for drug reactions, I grab it before I grab epi. if I catch the reaction in the first stages.        give it  IV if you can give it that way.


 


hey Bell, glad to see you got rid of your silhouette LOL 

Glad to hear it all worked out Roger.  


 


Very good move on cutting off the excess velvet.  Just my opinion, but I think that would have spelled major trouble for you in the future despite your best efforts to close it off securely. The only other thing I would mention is cauterizing the remaining velvet around the sides of the antler... may deter future growth and inhibit parasites (flies=maggots etc.)  


Please keep us posted on how they do.


 


BTW - that yearling had some killer mass!!!  It's always the best ones, but if he pulls through he will be one to watch for sure next year!

Another quick follow up to this.  If you have access to a cordless sawzall they do wonders for the bigger bucks.  We use the aggressive "wood" blades and it rips through the hard antler pretty fast.  Nothing worse than trying to cut through velvet antler when you have a bleeder gushing!!!  

My quote copy is being belligerent this morning:   "killer mass" &  "one to watch" 


 


 


If only he had a twin brother as well...  


 


 


 


 


 


Thanks Roger for the kind words, just don't EVER put me in another situation where you are liplocking a buck like that.  NOT a pretty picture.  Effective, but not pretty.


Great job to one whom you neglected to mention.  She is amazing!  I'm sure she doesn't feel the need for credit.  But we all appreciate it. 

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My quote copy is being belligerent this morning: "killer mass" & "one to watch"



If only he had a twin brother as well...






Thanks Roger for the kind words, just don't EVER put me in another situation where you are liplocking a buck like that. NOT a pretty picture. Effective, but not pretty.

Great job to one whom you neglected to mention. She is amazing! I'm sure she doesn't feel the need for credit. But we all appreciate it.
Yes I am glad he has a twin brother. And now we have two full sisters this spring also!

Yes, Melissa ( my fiancé ) does a great job also. She sure has a love for the "babies" as she calls the deer.

Thanks again to you Lisa.

In case anyone could be helped by this info. Bringing this to an active status.

The yearling buck who was damaged sawed off and treated twice last summer is two years old in this picture. Obvious signs from the previous years damage. However I am glad to have him.

22007:image.

Not bad at all, considering his problems last growing season. Are you planning to keep him another year before you sell him? I have found that they do real well if you give them the extra year to recover, and with his mass, he looks like he could do real well next year.