Maybe i should add the deer i sold went to fellow farmers in need so we really helping each other out. they didn't go to preserves
Joined Feb 2013
780 Posts | 1+
Markleville IN
1) 3000x2 2) 3000x2 3) 500x3 4) 2000x2 5) 1250x2 6) 1600x2 7) 300x6 8) 2000 9) 600 10) 300 11) 5500 12) 6500
13) 7500 14) 500 15) 2500 16) 1000 17) 1000 18) 1500 19) 4500 20) 3500 21) 2000 22) 500 23) 500 24) 3000
25) 1750 26) 800 27) 2500 28) 3000 29) 3250 30) 600x2 31) 2000 32) 2500 33) 1750x3 34) 2250 35) 1250 36) 24,500
37) 500 38) 3000 39) 1100 40) 500 41) 3000 42) 3500 43) out 44) 1500 45) 3000 46) 20,000 47) 2000 48) 2750
49) 700 50) 750 51) 1750 52) 16,000 53) 400 54) 500 55) 1300 56) 2500 57) 2200 58) 1400 59) 2500 60) 6500
61) 1250 62) out 63) 800 64) 3000 65) 3750 66) out 67) 600 68) 1000 69) 7500 70) 900 71) 4500 72) 800x3
73) pass 74) 2400 75) 2600 76) 400 77) 1500 78) 2750 79) 300 80) 1750 81) 1400 82) 300 83) No info 84) 2750
85) 3000 86) 600x6 87) 45,000 88) pass 89) 800 90) 2000 91) 1250 92) 400x2 93) 400x2 94) 300 95) 7250 96) 2000x2
97) 1500 98) 24,000 99) no info 100) 500 101) 700 102) 3900x2 103) 1250 104) pass 105) 1250 106) out 107) 3750 108) 17,000
109) 1000 110) 300x4 111) 800 112) 2750 113) 2500 114) 1700 115) pass 116) 900 117) 3500 118) 500 119) no info 120) 2250
121) 1000 122) 3600 123) 2100 124) 1300 125) 400 126) 1000 127) 1000 128) 600 129) 2500 130) 300 131) 500 132) 500
133) 300 134) 6750 135) 2000 136) 300 137) 5250 138) 1500 139) 17,500 140) 1600 141) 1100 142) 11,000 143) 14,500 144) 4500
145) 1000 146) 3250 147) 4000x3 148) 2000 149) 2750 150) 3000 151) 600x2 152) 1200 153) 900 154) 1000 155) 2100 156) 5000
157) 900
13) 7500 14) 500 15) 2500 16) 1000 17) 1000 18) 1500 19) 4500 20) 3500 21) 2000 22) 500 23) 500 24) 3000
25) 1750 26) 800 27) 2500 28) 3000 29) 3250 30) 600x2 31) 2000 32) 2500 33) 1750x3 34) 2250 35) 1250 36) 24,500
37) 500 38) 3000 39) 1100 40) 500 41) 3000 42) 3500 43) out 44) 1500 45) 3000 46) 20,000 47) 2000 48) 2750
49) 700 50) 750 51) 1750 52) 16,000 53) 400 54) 500 55) 1300 56) 2500 57) 2200 58) 1400 59) 2500 60) 6500
61) 1250 62) out 63) 800 64) 3000 65) 3750 66) out 67) 600 68) 1000 69) 7500 70) 900 71) 4500 72) 800x3
73) pass 74) 2400 75) 2600 76) 400 77) 1500 78) 2750 79) 300 80) 1750 81) 1400 82) 300 83) No info 84) 2750
85) 3000 86) 600x6 87) 45,000 88) pass 89) 800 90) 2000 91) 1250 92) 400x2 93) 400x2 94) 300 95) 7250 96) 2000x2
97) 1500 98) 24,000 99) no info 100) 500 101) 700 102) 3900x2 103) 1250 104) pass 105) 1250 106) out 107) 3750 108) 17,000
109) 1000 110) 300x4 111) 800 112) 2750 113) 2500 114) 1700 115) pass 116) 900 117) 3500 118) 500 119) no info 120) 2250
121) 1000 122) 3600 123) 2100 124) 1300 125) 400 126) 1000 127) 1000 128) 600 129) 2500 130) 300 131) 500 132) 500
133) 300 134) 6750 135) 2000 136) 300 137) 5250 138) 1500 139) 17,500 140) 1600 141) 1100 142) 11,000 143) 14,500 144) 4500
145) 1000 146) 3250 147) 4000x3 148) 2000 149) 2750 150) 3000 151) 600x2 152) 1200 153) 900 154) 1000 155) 2100 156) 5000
157) 900
Joined Feb 2013
780 Posts | 1+
Markleville IN
Joined Apr 2009
1,562 Posts | 0+
cental Pennsylvania
Were you there Bell? I wish I had known I would have liked to meet you in person. I was there both days.
Joined Sep 2009
249 Posts | 0+
Utica, PA Venango Co.
Thanks Rick for posting the average prices.
Regarding the stocker sale, Regardless of opinions, "Very strong"," Good", "Fair", or "Suck" ......these are "real world prices", and this is a good indicator of the state of the our business. I don't understand how 3 guys could set the standards for stocker prices. As stated above " (40,40,40); supply and demand is what fuels a market" If someone could explain this any differently, I would more than welcome the opportunity to be enlightened.
(40,40,40); Thanks,
Regarding the stocker sale, Regardless of opinions, "Very strong"," Good", "Fair", or "Suck" ......these are "real world prices", and this is a good indicator of the state of the our business. I don't understand how 3 guys could set the standards for stocker prices. As stated above " (40,40,40); supply and demand is what fuels a market" If someone could explain this any differently, I would more than welcome the opportunity to be enlightened.
(40,40,40); Thanks,
Joined Apr 2009
1,562 Posts | 0+
cental Pennsylvania
I am wondering how our PA stocker sale will go. I am afraid there will be many more sellers than buyers, but I hope I am wrong. I would be thrilled to see prices similar to the Ohio sale because I am thinking of entering a lot if they still accept the lots until then. I haven't got offers yet over $ 3,000 for 200" bucks yet, and I will not sell a 200" buck for $3,000, absolutely no way I will. I will hold them all if I have to, makes no difference to me. I set out in this industry to produce some good looking deer, and I don't care who all tells me otherwise, I know my bucks are worth more than the low ball offers I am getting lately. I am not farming deer to cater to the preserves that shoot themselves in the foot by selling 200" hunts Way to cheap in the first place. That's their problem, not mine. I am not a bail out service( unless we can work a deal that fair to us both)Sorry for the rant, lol, been a rough week trying to sell deer. Haha.
It doesn't matter if you are a preserve or farmer the bottom line is the demand for your product. Unfortunately so many people got into this when shooter prices were very very high and we all saw dollar signs. I used to have a standing offer for 200inch deer at $10,000. Now because of where the "demand" from the hunters are and the supply available there are preserves selling 200 inch hunts for $5,900. The good old days are gone and never will be back. That's one of the reasons why so many of the big guys are leaving. But think of it this way. If you were just now starting raising deer and you looked at the business today. Buy good does for $1,000 and with todays genetics you can expect your two yr olds to be 180 to 210. Those deer are worth $3,000 to $4,000. Most preserve will charge $5,900 to $8,900 for those caliber deer. Its still better than cattle farming and you get to raise deer. I know a lot of people dont want to hear that but that is where the market is today and will be for a long time. We cant live in the past. We have to run our business in reality. Also, 95% of the farmers need to realize they are in the market of raising stocker bucks and not breeder bucks. A guy can make good money now if he has 15 good does and AI's them each year with sexed semen. In two years he can turn over 12 bucks a year for good money. You are not gonna quit work and watch deer the rest of your life and vacation in the Bahamas. But you can sure put some money away for retirement, college, hunting trips or whatever.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Hotrod969341409795075
It doesn't matter if you are a preserve or farmer the bottom line is the demand for your product. Unfortunately so many people got into this when shooter prices were very very high and we all saw dollar signs. I used to have a standing offer for 200inch deer at $10,000. Now because of where the "demand" from the hunters are and the supply available there are preserves selling 200 inch hunts for $5,900. The good old days are gone and never will be back. That's one of the reasons why so many of the big guys are leaving. But think of it this way. If you were just now starting raising deer and you looked at the business today. Buy good does for $1,000 and with todays genetics you can expect your two yr olds to be 180 to 210. Those deer are worth $3,000 to $4,000. Most preserve will charge $5,900 to $8,900 for those caliber deer. Its still better than cattle farming and you get to raise deer. I know a lot of people dont want to hear that but that is where the market is today and will be for a long time. We cant live in the past. We have to run our business in reality. Also, 95% of the farmers need to realize they are in the market of raising stocker bucks and not breeder bucks. A guy can make good money now if he has 15 good does and AI's them each year with sexed semen. In two years he can turn over 12 bucks a year for good money. You are not gonna quit work and watch deer the rest of your life and vacation in the Bahamas. But you can sure put some money away for retirement, college, hunting trips or whatever.
I agree for the most part but when you get low balled by a guy for a deer at say 3 grand and on his website he is selling said size deer for 8 to 10, well there is a problem.
It doesn't matter if you are a preserve or farmer the bottom line is the demand for your product. Unfortunately so many people got into this when shooter prices were very very high and we all saw dollar signs. I used to have a standing offer for 200inch deer at $10,000. Now because of where the "demand" from the hunters are and the supply available there are preserves selling 200 inch hunts for $5,900. The good old days are gone and never will be back. That's one of the reasons why so many of the big guys are leaving. But think of it this way. If you were just now starting raising deer and you looked at the business today. Buy good does for $1,000 and with todays genetics you can expect your two yr olds to be 180 to 210. Those deer are worth $3,000 to $4,000. Most preserve will charge $5,900 to $8,900 for those caliber deer. Its still better than cattle farming and you get to raise deer. I know a lot of people dont want to hear that but that is where the market is today and will be for a long time. We cant live in the past. We have to run our business in reality. Also, 95% of the farmers need to realize they are in the market of raising stocker bucks and not breeder bucks. A guy can make good money now if he has 15 good does and AI's them each year with sexed semen. In two years he can turn over 12 bucks a year for good money. You are not gonna quit work and watch deer the rest of your life and vacation in the Bahamas. But you can sure put some money away for retirement, college, hunting trips or whatever.
I agree for the most part but when you get low balled by a guy for a deer at say 3 grand and on his website he is selling said size deer for 8 to 10, well there is a problem.
Joined Apr 2014
1,245 Posts | 0+
Greensburg, IN
Matt
I wish you had kept your CWD accreditation. Check your PM. I sent you someone from PA's name who I have confidence in that might buy your bucks. I am certain that I could get you 4500-5000+ for a decent looking 200" buck. There are a lot less mature hunt bucks out there available than many realize. I recently sold a 180's and a 210" for over 11,000. Take the time to contact as many preserves as you can and e-mail them good photos. You will eventually get a good price. It is just the beginning of September. Do not sell your bucks now unless you are paid top dollar. Many farms have doe and fawns or yearling bucks but few have many mature hunt bucks.
There will soon be no producers left to buy bucks from if all the preserves are offering is $3,000 for 200" 2 year olds.@$400 per buck per year for feed and upkeep, $200 average lap fee plus travel expense usually $800-$1000, plus another $400 to feed the doe and a meager $500 per straw for the sexed male semen with 80% conception. No producer can make it let alone put money away if this is what the preserves are going to pay. The producer will also have some die before they can be sold.
Low stocker prices cleaned two of my neighbors out last year. They averaged together 12-15 hunt bucks total each year. With all the EHD loss last year and the year before and the fact that many have sold out there are not as many hunt bucks out there. This will be evident very soon. Hold on to your bucks prices will come up. Stand firm! Prices were higher early at Kevin's sale because there are way less bucks available this year.
I wish you had kept your CWD accreditation. Check your PM. I sent you someone from PA's name who I have confidence in that might buy your bucks. I am certain that I could get you 4500-5000+ for a decent looking 200" buck. There are a lot less mature hunt bucks out there available than many realize. I recently sold a 180's and a 210" for over 11,000. Take the time to contact as many preserves as you can and e-mail them good photos. You will eventually get a good price. It is just the beginning of September. Do not sell your bucks now unless you are paid top dollar. Many farms have doe and fawns or yearling bucks but few have many mature hunt bucks.
There will soon be no producers left to buy bucks from if all the preserves are offering is $3,000 for 200" 2 year olds.@$400 per buck per year for feed and upkeep, $200 average lap fee plus travel expense usually $800-$1000, plus another $400 to feed the doe and a meager $500 per straw for the sexed male semen with 80% conception. No producer can make it let alone put money away if this is what the preserves are going to pay. The producer will also have some die before they can be sold.
Low stocker prices cleaned two of my neighbors out last year. They averaged together 12-15 hunt bucks total each year. With all the EHD loss last year and the year before and the fact that many have sold out there are not as many hunt bucks out there. This will be evident very soon. Hold on to your bucks prices will come up. Stand firm! Prices were higher early at Kevin's sale because there are way less bucks available this year.
Joined Apr 2009
1,562 Posts | 0+
cental Pennsylvania
Thanks Bell, I appreciate the PM you sent. That's why I am holding out, it is still way to early to sell low right now, I want to hold out for a bit and see what happens. I can afford to raise them another year if necessary.
I agree with you Hotrod, I really do. I am just dissapointed. My expenses are the same as preserves, these guys know what it costs to raise deer, so it's frustrating that they lowball someone so much. Can I make money if I sell my 200" two year olds for $3000? Yes, perhaps a little. But I can also work overtime at my full time job ( which I can't do now because the deer task are so demanding) I could do some side work, like finishing drywall, taxidermy, and cutting firewood to sell, All of which I have next to no time to do now because I have 50 to care for on my own. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love my deer, and I don't do it to make a living, but when I have a herd the size I do right now, I absolutely better be making decent money or it's not worth the work. I can have as much fun with 4 deer as a hobby as I do with 50 adults and trying to make money. Point is I am a worker, I will do what is necessary to make money when I need it, I am not the type of individual that expects handouts, and I what I see right now is not a very smart way to make money to put away for my future. I can make a lot more doing taxidermy and just having a few deer for pets, if I raise 200" deer to sell for only $3,000. Now if I can get $4,000 for that size, that changes everything. I will do the work for that price, if I sell all my 200" this year for 3k I will get 12k, if I sell for 4k I will get 16k, that's a half a years feed money in that difference!
Maybe I will just put up my own 10 or 20 acre preserve and undercut everyone else's prices and shoot all my bucks 200" class for $4,000. Wait a minute, that's what lots of other guys are doing, and there in lies the problem..., I just don't want them to expect me to help by giving my deer away at bottom dollar when they quickly sell out of their own, ( and they surely will when they sell that low, I guarantee it) that was the point I was trying to make. No offense to you guys with preserves, I personally don't care if you want to shoot a 200" buck for $500, that's your choice. I just don't want to be expected to take you serious when you make rediculous offers on my stock.
I do however highly recommend NOT selling stupidly low price hunts, it will bite everyone in the industry. This is a big world. Each year there are many men on the quest in our preserves to kill a buck of their dreams, or at least one bigger than their buddies, and they will pay fair money to do it, There are lots of guys with lots of money out there, guys will start paying fair When they have too. If hunters are not happy with our prices, they can go find a 200" in the wild.....good luck with that, unfortunately most of us only get about 70 years on this planet, that's not enough hunting time for 99% of us to even see a buck of that caliber out in the wilds..... They exist on such a small scale I couldn't imagine putting a number on those odds.
Sorry for the rants again. I was thinking about not posting this for fear of insulting or offending someone, but those who know me personally would know that wasn't my intent. So i figured what the heck, maybe it will generate more good conversation. And again no offense to any preserve owners on here ( we all need you guys in the end) the lowball preserves I am referring to are owned by guys whose arrogance wouldn't even be tolerated on a nice forum like this for very long. Lots of ignorant people out there.
Wow, I really took this thread off topic, sorry
I agree with you Hotrod, I really do. I am just dissapointed. My expenses are the same as preserves, these guys know what it costs to raise deer, so it's frustrating that they lowball someone so much. Can I make money if I sell my 200" two year olds for $3000? Yes, perhaps a little. But I can also work overtime at my full time job ( which I can't do now because the deer task are so demanding) I could do some side work, like finishing drywall, taxidermy, and cutting firewood to sell, All of which I have next to no time to do now because I have 50 to care for on my own. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love my deer, and I don't do it to make a living, but when I have a herd the size I do right now, I absolutely better be making decent money or it's not worth the work. I can have as much fun with 4 deer as a hobby as I do with 50 adults and trying to make money. Point is I am a worker, I will do what is necessary to make money when I need it, I am not the type of individual that expects handouts, and I what I see right now is not a very smart way to make money to put away for my future. I can make a lot more doing taxidermy and just having a few deer for pets, if I raise 200" deer to sell for only $3,000. Now if I can get $4,000 for that size, that changes everything. I will do the work for that price, if I sell all my 200" this year for 3k I will get 12k, if I sell for 4k I will get 16k, that's a half a years feed money in that difference!
Maybe I will just put up my own 10 or 20 acre preserve and undercut everyone else's prices and shoot all my bucks 200" class for $4,000. Wait a minute, that's what lots of other guys are doing, and there in lies the problem..., I just don't want them to expect me to help by giving my deer away at bottom dollar when they quickly sell out of their own, ( and they surely will when they sell that low, I guarantee it) that was the point I was trying to make. No offense to you guys with preserves, I personally don't care if you want to shoot a 200" buck for $500, that's your choice. I just don't want to be expected to take you serious when you make rediculous offers on my stock.
I do however highly recommend NOT selling stupidly low price hunts, it will bite everyone in the industry. This is a big world. Each year there are many men on the quest in our preserves to kill a buck of their dreams, or at least one bigger than their buddies, and they will pay fair money to do it, There are lots of guys with lots of money out there, guys will start paying fair When they have too. If hunters are not happy with our prices, they can go find a 200" in the wild.....good luck with that, unfortunately most of us only get about 70 years on this planet, that's not enough hunting time for 99% of us to even see a buck of that caliber out in the wilds..... They exist on such a small scale I couldn't imagine putting a number on those odds.
Sorry for the rants again. I was thinking about not posting this for fear of insulting or offending someone, but those who know me personally would know that wasn't my intent. So i figured what the heck, maybe it will generate more good conversation. And again no offense to any preserve owners on here ( we all need you guys in the end) the lowball preserves I am referring to are owned by guys whose arrogance wouldn't even be tolerated on a nice forum like this for very long. Lots of ignorant people out there.
Wow, I really took this thread off topic, sorry
Matt, I feel your pain. The industry has transformed so much in the past 5 years and is getting ready to go through some more major changes. The guy surviving today has to be able to control his feed bill and/or his lodge payment. Those two things will make deer farming miserable and make people throw in the towl. Thats why 95% of the guys need to be producing bucks only. Once all the borders are closed it will come down to numbers of preserve vrs number of deer farms in the state with relationships coming into play for some of us. I feel sorry for the Pennsylvania guys right now. Its a good time to be a preserve owners but when most of the guys who cant control cost throw in the towel the ones left will reap the rewards and the preserves will suffer. Its a vicious circle. I have guys I buy from and always have and always will. If we dont get things opened up here in Indiana a bunch of farmers are going to lose everything in the next couple years. Hope you find your niche and make it through.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Hotrod970131409877977
Matt, I feel your pain. The industry has transformed so much in the past 5 years and is getting ready to go through some more major changes. The guy surviving today has to be able to control his feed bill and/or his lodge payment. Those two things will make deer farming miserable and make people throw in the towl. Thats why 95% of the guys need to be producing bucks only. Once all the borders are closed it will come down to numbers of preserve vrs number of deer farms in the state with relationships coming into play for some of us. I feel sorry for the Pennsylvania guys right now. Its a good time to be a preserve owners but when most of the guys who cant control cost throw in the towel the ones left will reap the rewards and the preserves will suffer. Its a vicious circle. I have guys I buy from and always have and always will. If we dont get things opened up here in Indiana a bunch of farmers are going to lose everything in the next couple years. Hope you find your niche and make it through.
So True. Pa is going to be in a world of hurt untill this CWD crap works its way through our world. It was great to have that many farms in one state because there are strength in numbers but now that they can pretty much only sell in their own states? Its cut throat time. Trust me...Closed borders do the same!
Matt, I feel your pain. The industry has transformed so much in the past 5 years and is getting ready to go through some more major changes. The guy surviving today has to be able to control his feed bill and/or his lodge payment. Those two things will make deer farming miserable and make people throw in the towl. Thats why 95% of the guys need to be producing bucks only. Once all the borders are closed it will come down to numbers of preserve vrs number of deer farms in the state with relationships coming into play for some of us. I feel sorry for the Pennsylvania guys right now. Its a good time to be a preserve owners but when most of the guys who cant control cost throw in the towel the ones left will reap the rewards and the preserves will suffer. Its a vicious circle. I have guys I buy from and always have and always will. If we dont get things opened up here in Indiana a bunch of farmers are going to lose everything in the next couple years. Hope you find your niche and make it through.
So True. Pa is going to be in a world of hurt untill this CWD crap works its way through our world. It was great to have that many farms in one state because there are strength in numbers but now that they can pretty much only sell in their own states? Its cut throat time. Trust me...Closed borders do the same!