cutting antlers on yearling bucks

I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on whether or not to cut antlers on yearling bucks. I don't have a handling facility and have been cutting antlers by darting. I have always cut the antlers on my breeder bucks before putting them in with the does and then cut all of my bucks when i put them in the buck pens.



I was talking to two other breeders who don't cut their yearling bucks. I was wondering everyone's thoughts on whether to cut the yearlings. Without a handling facility, their thought was the risk of one of them getting injured was greater darting them then leaving yearling bucks in a pen together with their antlers still on.

If all the yearlings are together from the start we dont cut them they seem to get along

They all come off. I dont have a handling facility either. If they are not being sold this season they come off. Why even think about takin a chance on one gettin hurt or them hurting someone else. I have already had one yearling get tangled up in the fence while he was messin around and rubbin on the fence. Woke up and there he was pushin and pulling on the fence after a couple kickers got caught in the fence. He was all frothy and soakin wet with the ground all tore up. I dodged a bullet on that one as he didnt break his neck or has he showed signs of pneumonia. No horns= No worries. At All...

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

They all come off. I dont have a handling facility either. If they are not being sold this season they come off. Why even think about takin a chance on one gettin hurt or them hurting someone else. I have already had one yearling get tangled up in the fence while he was messin around and rubbin on the fence. Woke up and there he was pushin and pulling on the fence after a couple kickers got caught in the fence. He was all frothy and soakin wet with the ground all tore up. I dodged a bullet on that one as he didnt break his neck or has he showed signs of pneumonia. No horns= No worries. At All...

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some are starting to think that ( if ) you can leave them on the first year , they might get wider the secound year this is just here say of now but just wait soon we wont be cutting the year olds if we can help it , some of us got to cut all of them , hay put one of your shi 1 yr old in with the outhers that are cut and see what happens , just saying

crocket said:

some are starting to think that ( if ) you can leave them on the first year , they might get wider the secound year this is just here say of now but just wait soon we wont be cutting the year olds if we can help it , some of us got to cut all of them , hay put one of your shi 1 yr old in with the outhers that are cut and see what happens , just saying

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I can't think of any reasonable scientific/genetic reason why a cut buck vs. a non cut one would have anything to do with how wide they will grow. Not trying to debunk your statement, just saying that width, as with all other inheritable traits has much more to do with breeding and pass down traits rather than if you would cut a buck or not.



It's amazing how many different "myths" get passed around our industry.

Four Seasons Whitetails said:

They all come off. I dont have a handling facility either. If they are not being sold this season they come off. Why even think about takin a chance on one gettin hurt or them hurting someone else. I have already had one yearling get tangled up in the fence while he was messin around and rubbin on the fence. Woke up and there he was pushin and pulling on the fence after a couple kickers got caught in the fence. He was all frothy and soakin wet with the ground all tore up. I dodged a bullet on that one as he didnt break his neck or has he showed signs of pneumonia. No horns= No worries. At All...

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Mike - I've watched cut bucks beat the hell out of each other and end up with caved in skulls. Yearlings and two year olds may not be a problem, but when you have 3 year old bucks and older, then turn into killers... plain and simple. If they had nothing left on their heads but nubs they would still go at it, and sometimes to the death.

I've also witnessed two mature bucks in full velvet fight into a full blood bath. The truth is, there's no full proof way to keep bucks from doing what they are genetically predisposed to do.



With all of that being said, I do cut all of my bucks for the most part, but it's not without it's own unique set of issues.

WillPenn Whitetails said:

Mike - I've watched cut bucks beat the hell out of each other and end up with caved in skulls. Yearlings and two year olds may not be a problem, but when you have 3 year old bucks and older, then turn into killers... plain and simple. If they had nothing left on their heads but nubs they would still go at it, and sometimes to the death.

I've also witnessed two mature bucks in full velvet fight into a full blood bath. The truth is, there's no full proof way to keep bucks from doing what they are genetically predisposed to do.



With all of that being said, I do cut all of my bucks for the most part, but it's not without it's own unique set of issues.

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Yeah i have a couple 3yr olds this year but they are sold and soon to be gone! If they are not real special they are out the door at 3. The yearlings and this years button bucks are in one pen. The 2yr olds are in another pen and the girls, After AI are in another pen with the the breeder!!

I did not cut yearling's this year, alway's have before. Cut the 2 year old's. I plan to let the yearling's keep there antler's this year.

I totally agree with Mike...they all come off.



In the big picture...year in and year out...cut them ALL off, and I don't care how old they are or how much time they've spent together.



The farmer that cuts them ALL off each and every year will be ahead in the long run in the prevention of unnecessary death...period! It's indisputable!!!

Sandridge Whitetails said:

I totally agree with Mike...they all come off.



In the big picture...year in and year out...cut them ALL off, and I don't care how old they are or how much time they've spent together.



The farmer that cuts them ALL off each and every year will be ahead in the long run in the prevention of unnecessary death...period! It's indisputable!!!

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I don't disagree with cutting antlers. We do it here every year. I just don't want some new farmer to cut their bucks and think that all of their problems are solved. If you've ever witnessed 2 mature bucks caving in each others skulls with nubs left on their heads you will know what I'm saying. The damage can still be done, and sometimes worse that having antlers on their heads.

Try growing out a buck that's had his head crushed by another bucks burrs... it's not pretty.

I really enjoy looking at my bucks so for the most part we do not cut.



Deer still kill each other without antlers.

Two years ago I lost my white Breeder buck in mid Oct. before putting with the does .to fighting. So last year we cut everything. Only to have a two year old get his nubs caught in the fence when he stood up and poked his head through above the Barrier cloth. He hung himself and died from a collapsed windpipe. So danged if ya do and danged if ya don't.

I try and pic the most dominant in each pen and leave his rack on and then cut the rest off. The thought is that he will keep the others from fighting. This will be the third year of trying this. I don't move any bucks in or out of these pens, I don't want to change the pecking order in anyway. I also try and cut as soon as the velvet is off of most of the bucks and before they really start fighting. I also use a file and round off the sharp edges of their nubs so they don't cut each other up. We also vaccinate at this time.

The last group of bucks were put down and cut this last Tuesday. Has anyone else tried leaving the rack on one buck and if so how did it work for you

WillPenn Whitetails said:

I don't disagree with cutting antlers. We do it here every year. I just don't want some new farmer to cut their bucks and think that all of their problems are solved. If you've ever witnessed 2 mature bucks caving in each others skulls with nubs left on their heads you will know what I'm saying. The damage can still be done, and sometimes worse that having antlers on their heads.

Try growing out a buck that's had his head crushed by another bucks burrs... it's not pretty.

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Michael,



As it pertains to bucks fighting, you are absolutely right and it is good heads up advice to say that our problems are not solved by cutting buck's antlers off.

Fact is...as long as we own whitetails, our problems will never be solved! lol



And yes I have witnessed, on more than one occassion 2 mature bucks(3 year old+'s) doing battle after their antlers had been sawed off. I've seen those bloody foreheads...I've seen the cartiledge in the ear damaged to where the ear lost it's natural position...had one receive a concussion once...but all have always recovered fully.

I've heard of these deaths from cracked sculls, and have no reason to not believe it happens, I've just never experienced it.

What I have experienced, way to much, is the dragging out of dead bucks that have been killed by bucks with antlers on.



I've also witnessed a 1 year old buck 'full on' attack a 2 year old once, and if that 1 year old buck had not been sawed off just days before, he would have aptly killed that 2 year old buck on the first charge...he hit him dead nuts in the side just outside his lungs, and hit him with such force that he slammed the 2 year old into the fence he was standing near.



Concerning bucks with nubs and no antlers Michael, you stated ''The damage can still be done and sometimes worse than having antlers on their heads.''

I know what you are saying, and I agree, especially in a situation where there is only 2 bucks in the pen.

Fact is, when a buck is killed by another in the pen, it's much, maybe even most, of the time not killed by his actual opponent he started fighting with. He's killed by a buck that started out as an onlooker to the fight. This onlooker, gets riled up from what he's seeing, sees a vulnerability, joins the fight and comes in and blindsides...and kills.



You stated ''Try growing out a buck that's had his head crushed by another's nubs...it's not pretty!''

No doubt Michael, not pretty! I just firmly believe, and it sounds like you do as well, that we will see more of this 'ugly' by leaving antlers on...and dragging them out dead from brutally and savagly being killed by another buck(or bucks) with antlers on is about as ugly and gruesome as a death can be in a deer pen.

The only thing worse would be one of us getting dragged out dead from the same fate.



Hope the best for you Michael...and your bucks with nubs!

CBRanch,



Wanted to give you some more info before you decide to cut or not to cut.



Since you don't have a handling facility, one of the advantages to you in knocking them down to remove the antlers is that you will be able to give them some meds that would otherwise have not been administered.



Besides the dynamic of the buck's ''rut imposed'' urge to fight and kill each other, there are other reasons and concerns to consider.

In the scenario where you have a pen full of bucks with antlers, if a buck turns sick and begins to show weak, he will turn into a target for those healthy bucks, and they can and/or will kill the sick buck.

In the same scenario, where you have had the opportunity to see this sick buck before the others poke him full of holes, you must go in and dart him. Darting a buck with other antlered bucks present is one of the reasons I have grey hair(well, that and dealing with a guy named Dennis). As the drug is taking affect, and the buck is beginning to show signs of weakening, and especially during his final wabbles before hitting the ground, it will likely, actually almost assuredly, spawn an attack from others close by. You must watch that buck closely and be ready to intervene on his behalf to save him from harm. I've seen them attack a buck that was totally down and out before...bulldozed him forward a full 15 feet with their antlers.

The same is true when you have reversed your sick buck and he is on his way back up. You will have to babysit him until he has fully regained his composure and coordination, unless you have another pen to put him into to wake up.



Another circumstance that will vary the measure of volatility of leaving the antlers on is this - Are there does on the upwind side of your buck's pen according to your prevailing winds?

Or worse yet...Are there does immediately adjacent to your buck's pen?



I will say this...if you have NO does in the area, your danger of losing a buck to a fight has significantly and drastically declined, but you still have the ''sick buck scenario'' concern to consider though.



Hey...I know it sucks to saw antlers off. You wait all spring and summer long for them to grow out, and then as soon as they do, you saw em off, and make em all look like a ''skin head''.

But what sucks worse is to drag them out dead with holes poked in em.



Whatever you decide CBRanch, I wish you the best!

Same holds true foe leaving one in the pen with a rack on while the others are cut off. If you have two guys goin at it, even just a little spat. The guy with the horns might be havin a bad day a comes runnin in to beak it up and runs right into one of the guys in the spat. I have seen them go at it with no horns and they worked it out kinda fast. You might be at risk no matter what way you go but i know on this farm its, Grow all summer with lots of pics, Watch them shed out with pics and if they are not on the selling block.....They are flat heads again!!!

Well.....I didn't cut antlers last year as it was a rough one with my accident....anyhow......I was nervous all winter not only for the buck but for myself as well.....I wouldn't go in to feed the bucks without being in the bucket of the skid loader while someone else drove....I had some injuries and one major broken leg which led to the buck being put down........I will cut this year......as things are much better than they were last year this time........Mark......I know that Dennis guy your talking about surely can't be me? Right!

Thanks for all of the advice. I am going to go ahead and cut them. I moved a couple of temporary blinds in this weekend and will start darting a couple of them a night. I think the one bit of advice that really makes sense is that when they are down, I can go ahead worm them and make sure they are good to go.



Last year I did keep the antlers on my 2 breeder bucks. I was worried all fall and winter too because both of them were trying to fight the bucks in the next pen over. Watching them try to fight each other thru the fence was not fun to watch!



Another question, is there anyway to shoulder mount the antlers if you cut them off? I know taxidermist fix points but wondering if they can add a base and a burr that looks real.

Call someone who does reproductions. They can take a cast of the bases.

I am planning on cutting antlers this weekend. my question is, being still new to deer farming and still dont have all my pens up do to cost, would i be ok with putting my 4 button bucks in to a pen with 5 yearlings and 2 two year olds as long as there antlers are sawed? Thanks