Darting ????

With the mixture of 5cc Xylazine(100mg) per bottle of Telazol, I would use 1/2 cc for the fawns. For the adult does I would use 1 1/2cc. I don't understand not wanting them ''completely out'' or ''long period of time'', because you should be reversing them with Tolazine anyway...I would. Hope I've helped.

Regardless of the dosage rate you use, if you use Telazol, you will have to wait at least 1 hour before the Tolazine can be used to reverse the animal. Telazol has to metabolize and is not reversable. Maybe you should consider M-99 or Bam. These can be reversed immediately, reducing the time of anesthesia.

dbocoke

Telazol is an anesthetic.

Xylazine is a tranquiliser.

The telazol is not reversed by the tolazine,just the xylazine is.

You should wait 45 mins for the telazol to metabolise before reversing the xylazine.

This is less important with telazol than ketamine,due to the diazepalm in the mix,however a good practice when using any cyclohexane.



Your doe should be given the correct dose as this exposes her to less stress & risk.



Anyone using these drugs who has trouble comprehending the above post should consider doing a good capture course.

Any doses should be discussed with your vet & used under your vets "supervision".



Every capture exposes your animals to some risk, understanding the dangers of these drugs will minimise that risk.



Cheers Sharkey

You beat me to it Scott.



Cheers Sharkey

.5cc BAM,works great!

dbocoke said:

I was wondering the dosage for putting down this years fawns to move to another location, they are to wild to catch without hurting them. also what would be a close dosage for putting an adult doe but not knocking her completely out for a long period of time. thanks in advance.

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Sorry dbocoke that only 2 of us attempted to answer your actual questions. If you are in fact using Xylazine/Telazol mix, let me reiterate what I've already said and give you some facts through experience. Mix 5cc of Xylazine(100mg) and not 6cc like many do because it is the breaking line in effective potency. My deer that normally go down with 2cc of tranq mixed 5cc per bottle will all too often find me sneaking up behind them to push another 1/2cc in them when I use 6cc per bottle. When reversing with Tolazine you match the exact amount of Tolazine with what you gave to knock them down and give it intramuscular, aspirating your syringe to make sure you are not in a vein. Contrary to what you've been told above, DO NOT wait to give the reversal. In fact give it as quickly as possible. Reason: Your worst enemy when a deer is under the influence of Xylazine is asperated pneumonia(which results in death 10 days to 2 weeks later), caused by the deer's inability to swallow while under the influence of the Xylazine, and brought about when stomach contents intrude into their throat. They suck these stomach contents into their lungs instead of swallowing them back down due to their inability to do so. I dart, I saw, I move, and/or I treat, I reverse, and they're always up walking around easily within the time these guys are telling you to wait. Trust me on this. I have the experience of tranquilizing well over 150 deer in the last 3 years, all of which were reversed as soon as possible, and all without incident ( whatever that incident would be I have no idea) as well as the corroboration of a vet that has mentored me and is very involved in the deer industry and raises deer himself. Note: Book smart and field smart can be 2 different things!!

150 deer in three years.

Good for you Mark,cant wait for the book.

Cheers Sharkey



PS. For those interested a good capture course & a good vet relationship is time & money well spent.

sharkey said:

150 deer in three years.

Good for you Mark,cant wait for the book.

Cheers Sharkey



PS. For those interested a good capture course & a good vet relationship is time & money well spent.

Click to expand...

Wow! Still not answering the man's original question...instead we deem it more important to get cute with sarcasm.

No, Mark.

I would always be reluctant to discuss a dose to someone I don't know,or over the interweb.I'm not a fully qualified vet.



I don't like sarcasim,but I'm struggling with the culture/language/interpretation,differences between our countries,sorry.

Calling someone a ******* down here means you like them.Don't quite know how that would go there.



However, I'm happy to talk about the pro's & con's of capturing & handling animals & share some of my own mistakes & experiences.



The doses need to be controlled & monitored by the prescribing vet.

I respect this & would not undermine thier authority or thier good faith every time they allow a deer farmer access to these drugs.



There is good reason to allow the tiletamine in telazol (zolitil,in other countries) to metabolise,before reversing the xylazine.

The diazepam in the mix & quiet deer have saved you some grief no doubt.

Not every capture is on quiet deer & reversing the Xylazine early can cause the "ketamine effect". Ask your vet about it.



Cheers Sharkey

Sandridge Whitetails said:

Sorry dbocoke that only 2 of us attempted to answer your actual questions. If you are in fact using Xylazine/Telazol mix, let me reiterate what I've already said and give you some facts through experience. Mix 5cc of Xylazine and not 6cc like many do because it is the breaking line in effective potency. My deer that normally go down with 2cc of tranq mixed 5cc per bottle will all too often find me sneaking up behind them to push another 1/2cc in them when I use 6cc per bottle. When reversing with Tolazine you match the exact amount of Tolazine with what you gave to knock them down and give it intramuscular, aspirating your syringe to make sure you are not in a vein. Contrary to what you've been told above, DO NOT wait to give the reversal. In fact give it as quickly as possible. Reason: Your worst enemy when a deer is under the influence of Xylazine is asperated pneumonia(which results in death 10 days to 2 weeks later), caused by the deer's inability to swallow while under the influence of the Xylazine, and brought about when stomach contents intrude into their throat. They suck these stomach contents into their lungs instead of swallowing them back down due to their inability to do so. I dart, I saw, I move, and/or I treat, I reverse, and they're always up walking around easily within the time these guys are telling you to wait. Trust me on this. I have the experience of tranquilizing well over 150 deer in the last 3 years, all of which were reversed as soon as possible, and all without incident ( whatever that incident would be I have no idea) as well as the corroboration of a vet that has mentored me and is very involved in the deer industry and raises deer himself. Note: Book smart and field smart can be 2 different things!!

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Mark, when you mix the 5cc of Xylazine with the Telazol, are you using 100mg or 300mg Xylazine? And how many cc of this do you use to tranquilize mature bucks?

Don H

Thank you for highlighting the issues concerning the kitchen table prescribing of these drugs.



Cheers Sharkey

sharkey said:

No, Mark.

I would always be reluctant to discuss a dose to someone I don't know,or over the interweb.I'm not a fully qualified vet.



I don't like sarcasim,but I'm struggling with the culture/language/interpretation,differences between our countries,sorry.

Calling someone a ******* down here means you like them.Don't quite know how that would go there.



However, I'm happy to talk about the pro's & con's of capturing & handling animals & share some of my own mistakes & experiences.



The doses need to be controlled & monitored by the prescribing vet.

I respect this & would not undermine thier authority or thier good faith every time they allow a deer farmer access to these drugs.



There is good reason to allow the tiletamine in telazol (zolitil,in other countries) to metabolise,before reversing the xylazine.

The diazepam in the mix & quiet deer have saved you some grief no doubt.

Not every capture is on quiet deer & reversing the Xylazine early can cause the "ketamine effect". Ask your vet about it.



Cheers Sharkey

Click to expand...

Sharkey - I understand your position of reluctancy and respect it. My position on feeling comfortable in providing advice on dosage spawns out of experience. It also spawns out of the realization that experienced deer farmers typically know more about what, how, and when to do things when it comes to treating deer medically than your average cow, pig, dog and cat vet does, which certainly constitutes the VAST majority of vets here in the states. At the risk of sounding arrogant, several of the local vets here in my area have learned MUCH more from me than I have ever have from them, and my information to them has come to me via the experiences of other deer farmers as well as my own experiences implimented through this same info.

Sharkey, I too am happy(glad you are too) to talk about the pros and cons concerning the care and treatment of animals, sharing my mistakes and experiences with others. That's what makes this forum so awesome. I certainly have a significant amount of deer standing alive in my pens today solely because of advice/info I have received here on this forum.

And we all don't have to agree on certain issues, in particular when ''this'' will work as good as ''that''.

I did ask my vet Sharkey...he said you're wrong. And again, this is a vet that is ''fully qualified'' and is extremely involved and experienced in the deer industry, as well as raises his own deer, and he said this about anyone who believes that it's wise to ''wait'' to reverse with Tolazine, and I quote ''They're wrong''.

One last thing Sharkey, and this is of utmost importance should you ever decide to visit us here in the States: Calling someone a '*******' will not be very warmly received up here either! lol Now you have yourself a great day and may God Bless you abundantly!!!

Don H said:

Mark, when you mix the 5cc of Xylazine with the Telazol, are you using 100mg or 300mg Xylazine? And how many cc of this do you use to tranquilize mature bucks?

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I have always used 100mg and have never used 300mg. I typically use 2cc for my 2 year olds. Lately I have begun to use 3cc on those that are 3 years old and older even though much of the time 2cc is enough. Wish they made a 2 1/2cc dart. Variables on dosage sometimes lend themselves to why you are knocking them down. And once in awhile you can run into a deer that is Xylazine resistant and requires more than the ''normal working dosage''.

Don H said:

Mark, when you mix the 5cc of Xylazine with the Telazol, are you using 100mg or 300mg Xylazine? And how many cc of this do you use to tranquilize mature bucks?

Click to expand...

Don H - I would like to add here that I know of no one that uses 300mg Xylazine though I assume their are those out there that do. I personally would not consider using it for the following reason: The size of the darts available to me that I currently use wouldn't allow me the flexability to measure my desired amount of 300mg Xylazine being administered due to it's potency. The darts I use come in 1/2cc, 1cc, 1 1/2cc, 2cc and then 3cc and up. If my darts were made in 1/4 cc increments, it might shed a different light for me on my desire of using 300mg Xylazine. Just one man's opinion.

Mark you are spot on the way you explained how you go about darting and reverseing.If they would have been sitting in the same crowd as me last year at nadefa they would have been told by one of the top deer vets in the country that he recomends to reverse as soon as possible..no waiting...If you dart the deer and it takes say 15 minutes for it to go out and then you cut horns or work on the deer there has been enough time in between all this to go ahead and wake them up.The only thing different in our usage is that i use a 6 to 1 ratio on the cocktail and mine are calm so its 1cc for does and 1 1/2 for bucks and its lights out!!! I double the rate for reverser.If i dart 1cc cocktail i reverse with 2cc's!!!!!

Mark how does the size of the "dart" influence you decision whether or not to use 300mg/ml Xylazine?? The whole idea behind using highly concentrated drugs is to allow you to use less drug in the dart and of course allowing one to use a smaller darts, the ideal dart size being a 1cc dart for anesthetization and please explain "a Xylazine resistant deer"

sharkey said:

Don H

Thank you for highlighting the issues concerning the kitchen table prescribing of these drugs.



Cheers Sharkey

Click to expand...

Sharkey keep up the good professional posts.....we do speak the same language!!

Capchaman - Certainly with the use of fractions and sterile water one can 'moot' out the concern for dart size...I like simple and I like ''if it ain't broke, don't fix it''. A man asked my opinion, I gave it, and labeled it as such...my opinion!! You say ''the ideal dart size being the 1cc dart for anesthetization''. Ok fine. For 14 years now and after hundreds and hundreds of deer being darted, I have been using anywhere from 1/2cc to 3cc darts, (which according to you are less than ideal), and yet I have experienced ''ideal'' results in anethetization. If you are one of those that uses the 300mg Xylazine and 1cc darts, then use them. Nobody is trying to change your mind! Why don't you concentrate more on the original question of this thread(instead of otherwise) and answer it, giving the whys and the wherefores of your opinion and your success thereof. That way, maybe we could all learn something. And when the originator of this thread reads your opinion, he can then make a more informed/educated opinion and assessment on what he choses to do, it's just that simple.

I find your adaptation to the term ''kitchen table'' interesting. If in fact the majority of us here don't believe that this forum and it's participants in this ''kitchen table'' advice given out has any significance - then WHY are we here? - WHY are you here? I'm sure we ALL know of a local vet we could call - WHY aren't we just calling them? I'll tell you WHY - because the average local vet does NOT know what the experienced deer farmer does concerning meds for deer, and I've buried more than one deer from the advice, or lack of, from just such ''local vets''. To be more specific to the issue: The average local vet would have no more known the correct dosage of anethetization for dbocoke's deer than a man in the moon...period!!

Ya know, and I was warned about this, some people post on here not to be helpful but to simply pick a fight. It's no wonder people leave the forum or strictly do PM, which is exactly what I am going to do upon hitting the ''post quick reply'' button. So if you Capchaman, or anyone else have any questions or comments concerning this last post of mine or any others, you're gonna have to call me. My number is listed.

Capchaman - You asked ''please explain a Xylazine resistant deer''. Because the heart of your post/question is plain to see, I will answer you as follows: Crack open a Webster's or just keep darting...one or the other, or both, will sooner or later enlighten you!

However, if I have misread your heart, call me and I will be glad to explain.

G'day Capchaman.

Thanks for the kind words.

Some folks dont take help well,or as a non American, It may be my delivery.

I do like many of the people on this forum,some real deer men & women.



Cheers Mate.

Sharkey



Ps. If Aus isn't in the final against Kiwi (NZ) in "The world cup",I'll be cheering for SA.

Please don't tell them though ,or they'll kick me out of the Pacific alliance.

Anyone but France then England.LOL.