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Deer Escape WWUD?

Whitetail Sanctuary

Whitetail Sanctuary

Joined May 2009
2,369 Posts | 0+
Chillicothe, Missouri
Well we all know it could happen at anytime while Moving deer,Daily Feeding or Working them in the Barn...............That "something" could happen and you've lost a deer..........Well it happened to ME back in Oct. was doing my herd inventory and had to have some help. I asked a fellow farmer if he could help, He said no problem even brought a helper along and we prepared to move does to the barn in the moments before we left the barn and we all went out to the deer pens. The main walk door to the barn had been unknowingly left open. Moved the first group in no problem,Moved the next pen and had a doe who was here to breed and had never been in the barn............No problem i have done it countless times. Well she got "Alittle" nuts in the box stall and door blew open at the bottom and a Bottle fed yearling doe escaped!


Luckily only one and having NEVER experienced this I figured well no biggie! Moved doe fawns over and left a pen open beside her pen and thought she be in by morning? And probably would have if it had not been my neighbors herding dog had decided he like coming a mile away to my house and run around and chase the deer!


2 days later after worrying and walking the woods and driving around looking and hollerin for her. My local MDC Agent called and asked if I had a deer escape ? I told him yes and could not find her..........Well she was two and a half miles way!


My Agent told me " How sorry he was and if he could be any help getting her back just holler and he knew my wife and I felt terrible..........You guys put so much time and money into your deer"


I asked him what do i do know ?


He said......." Well I know she's escaped and we will see if she shows up"!...........It's 2 weeks before rifle season and the RUT is in full swing, I was sure she would show up...........DEAD!


 


I heard no more from my Agent till last night.............He called and said he be over to give me a "Ticket" for my escaped doe!!............And he was calling to give me a 'Heads Up"..........BEFORE he just showed up with "My Ticket" as he laughed..................Yep....................I WAS Instantly PISSED!!


 


He shows up about 8:30 with ticket in hand! Said nothing "personal"..............But that this is a "HOT Political Topic" and could not go on un adressed!!..................It's now 54 FRICKEN Days later!!!


He continued to say he had a job to do and he was told he had to give me the ticket and it was after all a "Pretty Signifigent Violation"!!!! 


And that he was told that I was "responsible for any damage she caused"?? 


I asked him how's that possible...............Shes NOT Livestock according to MDC...............They "OWN" MY deer............Even though MDC Can not provide me with a bill of sale a cancelled check for feed or care!


I said so last week my neighbors sheep got loose 50+ of em standing over the crest of the hill smack in the middle of a State Blacktop Road...................He gonna get a "Ticket" for his Animals gettin loose ??....................He said NO..........."Their Livestock".............Deer are NOT!!


I reminded him how in Donald Hills Court Case................HIS........Employer.........Th STATE Of Missouri................Gave damages for Dogs..........Killing Mr. Hills "Livestock" ?.............Oh and I just got a "Check"...........From the Federal Government...................Paying ME for MY lost Livestock in 2012 & 2013..................I asked him " If MDC ........OWNED MY DEER..............Wouldn't the FEDERAL Government................Sent that Check to the Missouri Department of Conservation............For THEIR deer????


He also told me my local Prosecuting Attorney could set the Fine for this MAJOR Violation some where between $1 and $1,000 and up to 1 yr in JAIL and or BOTH.....????????


 


For a DEER  accidently getting out ??


 


Wow......Well the conversation QUICKLY went farther down hill and he quickly left 10+ years and NEVER a problem..........Really havin a tough time with this and what to do movin forward!


 


 


Remember................It could happen to ANYONE of you................But if you have "Livestock" it's No biggie!
 
The perfect setup for a court case to push the issue. They can't have it both ways. A judge needs to decide once and for all who really owns deer in MO.

Sorry your having all those issues. But I would fight it and the state and national org should be front and center in the fight.

But that is just my opinion and I am nobody.
 
Wayne...don't plead guilty or pay the ticket. ..text me and I'll give you the number of our legal contacts and your farm can join the lawsuit. This is exactly what it addresses. I'm sure our lawyers will have some good advice for you and will want to see your violation and use it in court. Their jurisdiction is coming to an abrupt halt soon......
 
IndependenceRanch1002261419209942



The perfect setup for a court case to push the issue. They can't have it both ways. A judge needs to decide once and for all who really owns deer in MO.

Sorry your having all those issues. But I would fight it and the state and national org should be front and center in the fight.

But that is just my opinion and I am nobody.




How right is this statement. This case along with the others should be known and HEARD all across the country.  This is as good or better than this state having it written on a public website that they....Have a live test for THEIR elk that they are repopulating the state with but farmers with elk and deer have to have THEIR animals DEAD to be tested.


 Sucks this is on you buddy but i know ya well and i know you have a mouth and an ass to back it up. I pray i see this in the news all the way up here and if i dont then we really do have a problem with our leadership.
 
IndependenceRanch1002261419209942



The perfect setup for a court case to push the issue. They can't have it both ways. A judge needs to decide once and for all who really owns deer in MO.

Sorry your having all those issues. But I would fight it and the state and national org should be front and center in the fight.

But that is just my opinion and I am nobody.




New guy here that has lurked for a year or so and figured this might be a good place to say something for the first time...


 


As much sense as it makes to be mad at the guy writing the ticket, I would be thanking him for giving up the opportunity to get an easy dismissal from court, or be part of the solution on a much bigger scale...He wrote a citation for owning a deer that they legally cannot prove is privately owned without opening themselves to a huge legal trap...That is the kind of thing that gets appealed at higher-level courts and has teeth enough to get laws changed...


 


If this were happening to me, I would go one of two ways here...1, lawyer up and let an attorney handle it from the start...Smartest move, but will cost some money to be represented right out of the gate....Or, option 2, go into court on the scheduled date, admit only name, address, and date of birth if asked....Simply tell the judge "Your honor, the alleged cervid animal in question is not my personal or real property, but rather is the property of the MDC." From this point, simply put, it's a win either way....They either drop the case and walk out with nothing, or they argue that they do not own the deer and it's in fact, livestock that is privately owned...I seriously doubt they would want to set that legal precedent, so chances are it would just immediately get dropped...Being the hot-head I am, I would object to a dismissal and explain to the judge that I would like to file a counter-suit at this time and would humbly ask for a continuance so I could retain legal counsel to represent me in those proceedings...


 


I'm not a lawyer and I'm not giving legal advice, but that is how I see things from what the original poster said...
 
AustinFarms1002321419228213



New guy here that has lurked for a year or so and figured this might be a good place to say something for the first time...


 


As much sense as it makes to be mad at the guy writing the ticket, I would be thanking him for giving up the opportunity to get an easy dismissal from court, or be part of the solution on a much bigger scale...He wrote a citation for owning a deer that they legally cannot prove is privately owned without opening themselves to a huge legal trap...That is the kind of thing that gets appealed at higher-level courts and has teeth enough to get laws changed...


 


If this were happening to me, I would go one of two ways here...1, lawyer up and let an attorney handle it from the start...Smartest move, but will cost some money to be represented right out of the gate....Or, option 2, go into court on the scheduled date, admit only name, address, and date of birth if asked....Simply tell the judge "Your honor, the alleged cervid animal in question is not my personal or real property, but rather is the property of the MDC." From this point, simply put, it's a win either way....They either drop the case and walk out with nothing, or they argue that they do not own the deer and it's in fact, livestock that is privately owned...I seriously doubt they would want to set that legal precedent, so chances are it would just immediately get dropped...Being the hot-head I am, I would object to a dismissal and explain to the judge that I would like to file a counter-suit at this time and would humbly ask for a continuance so I could retain legal counsel to represent me in those proceedings...


 


I'm not a lawyer and I'm not giving legal advice, but that is how I see things from what the original poster said...




Yes Sir...Dont let them sweep this one under the rug. Because then when it gets dismissed there will be a couple of state lawyers saying...Man this could have gotten ugly in court if those deer farmers were a little brighter and fought us!  This really could be huge in court and in this whole shut the borders, my deer. their deer thing.
 
Our current lawsuit basically challenges their authority for anything concerning our animals. It is a simple fight. They feel our animals are wildlife and they own them and we feel they are not. All the facts point to our position. It has NOTHING to do with disease or anything else. We just want to define our animals and define who should regulate them. The lawsuit says the regulations that they passed are unconstitutional because they don't have the authority to make them. They control wildlife and that's all!


 


We are waiting for our first hearing which should provide an injunction or "stay" against any of their new regulations until the case is decided. It could be a long fight but we are confident. In the end we are going to strip them of ALL their jurisdiction and completely move to AG. At the same time we will again be working the legislature. The MDC is a rouge agency that has to be stopped. There are many anti-hunting forces at work here.


 


I am not a lawyer but believe they don't even have a regulation for what they tried to write Wayne a ticked for. In the new regulations it states you have to report the escape but I don't think it is any violation if you have one. And they are NOT in effect and probably never will be! The fact that the agent wants to write Wayne  a ticket just supports our position that they are unqualified and certainly not authorized to regulate our industry.


 


If you want to support our fight in Missouri please feel free to do so. We are grateful for the out pouring of support we have received so far and will continue to raise money to fight for all of our rights. Missouri is the battle ground that will make or break this industry. The lying, the bullying and the blatant disregard for the law stops here!


 


Sam
 
They like to refer to your deer as captive wildlife, what a misnomer! When were they ever wild??? When were they captured?? No they are farmed cervids! I make that correction whenever I have the opportunity.
 
I would get educated on the state laws and take it to court.  All the states are gonna have to face this jurisdiction issue eventually. I started my fight in 2005 and its still going on.  We proved in court the DNR has no jurisdiction.  However its not that easy fighting the state. We have spent a lot of money and years on this issue and other like Missouri are in the infancy of a long fight. The injunction is the first and easiest thing to get that will keep you operating short term.  Then There will be many hi's and low's over the next ten years for them.  It sounds easy going into it but the politics will drag it out forever.  If the Governor dont want our industry under AG it wont go under ag not matter what is proven.  Whatever happens in Indiana in the next couple months is likely to set the stage across the board.
 
Hotrod1002531419341967



I would get educated on the state laws and take it to court.  All the states are gonna have to face this jurisdiction issue eventually. I started my fight in 2005 and its still going on.  We proved in court the DNR has no jurisdiction.  However its not that easy fighting the state. We have spent a lot of money and years on this issue and other like Missouri are in the infancy of a long fight. The injunction is the first and easiest thing to get that will keep you operating short term.  Then There will be many hi's and low's over the next ten years for them.  It sounds easy going into it but the politics will drag it out forever.  If the Governor dont want our industry under AG it wont go under ag not matter what is proven.  Whatever happens in Indiana in the next couple months is likely to set the stage across the board.




Good luck.  Both Missouri and Indiana.
 
Yes, good luck.  We fought this battle back in 2002 in WI when CWD hit.  DNR does not have any vets and wildlife people don't know anything about farmed animals.  I believe that one by one the states will eventually all be under Agriculture.
 

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