Dna at auctions

I think it is a great idea Mike......of course this adds an extra expense but it sure would make it hard for the liars and cheaters out there......after all we would all like to be certain we are buying what we are bidding on!! I vote YES! Honestly, unless you are trying to hide something I don't know why you wouldn't want this?!!!

I do not think it should be mandatory, but the price should reflect it in the bidding. No DNA no High dollars

there are alot of great people in this business but you still have the ones you cant trust when i started out i might as well flushed my money down the drain after a hard learning curve ive learned who to trust and thats who will earn my bussiness but your idea is good if you have nothing to hide you should be all in

Bring on the DNA!!!!

When you update your buck DNA on Whitetail Quest any offspring will include your information. This helps add value to your customers and make value to cost of DNA. Take time update your information and show the best of your buck. Yes this is a free service to you.



Scott

simple...the auction company holds all funds until the DNA is verified

Every deer we sell at auction is DNA'ed before the sale.

If we sell a deer off the farm it is either DNA'ed before the sale or in that rare instance when it has not been DNA'ed the buyer can of course run the DNA and I guarantee it or money back. If your wondering what is one of those rare instances when the DNA has not been run that would be a brand spankin' new fawn freshly born. Kinda hard to have DNA run in a couple of days time

IndependenceRanch said:

Every deer we sell at auction is DNA'ed before the sale.

If we sell a deer off the farm it is either DNA'ed before the sale or in that rare instance when it has not been DNA'ed the buyer can of course run the DNA and I guarantee it or money back. If your wondering what is one of those rare instances when the DNA has not been run that would be a brand spankin' new fawn freshly born. Kinda hard to have DNA run in a couple of days time

Click to expand...

And that's the way it should be done. Either it has a DNA# or in the case of a fawn, the seller guarantees the DNA in the consignment. Otherwise, my hand is not going up......

We will guarantee DNA if it hasn't been done on a deer we sell. Usually we will have the father DNA'd on a fawn for example but maybe not the mother, since we group our does so all of them in a pen are from the same breeding. We have not DNA'd all of our does and probably never will since we have so many. We feel our word is worth something, and like I said, we will guarantee any DNA from a deer we sell.

Most, if not all, of the major sales require a DNA # to list your consignment. It is one of the best ideas to come along. We too guarantee DNA on all deer sold and all of our herd is verified. Bucks and does. It does get expensive, however, why should anyone buy an animal with their hard earned money and then have to worry if it will be the right one. We also verify ALL deer purchased by us with a hair sample send to DNA Solutions. People lie, THE HAIR DOESN'T....

Mike and Angie this is a great topic, thanks for starting it. I have been sitting on some feelings for awhile now concerning and related to this very topic.

You guys are correct that the sales are moving towards DNA being required for the sales and I personally like the idea very much.



I understand it is costly to run DNA on every animal. That is why we actually don't run the DNA on an animal we own unless we are selling it, OR until we need to run it for parentage reasons. Meaning once a previous years doe fawn lives long enough to have a fawn of her own and I want or need to run her fawns DNA, I then need the mothers as well. Otherwise if I DNA every doe fawn sure as heck one of them will die before she has a fawn and I never would have needed her DNA run.





I guess there are those buyers who just need to know they are getting what they purchased and as long as they know it they don't need the DNA paper trail for their own records. Maybe they just buy a doe and use her to raise shooters until she dies of old age and they never intend to try selling her fawns either. That is great for those who choose to operate that way.



But I don't/will no longer, buy that way and I have to believe I am not the only one.

I invest in a deer or semen to use it for my own production AND to resell either fawns or eventually the adults. And it is during that resale that good records are important. During that resale I want to be able to show the DNA paper trail to the potential investors so they can see beyond a doubt that what I am offering them is in fact the real deal.

I personally am tired of buying semen that only has DNA on the sire and MAYBE the sire's sire. But no DNA available on the dam side. I also am tired of buying does that only DNA to the sire but there is no DNA available for the dam side. Everyone in this industry knows the dam is just as important as the sire.



I like seeing the paper trail. I like providing my investors a paper trail. I hate when an otherwise awesome pedigree stops dead because I was unable to secure the DNA of a doe someplace along the line.

Notice I usually call my buyers or clients "investors" and not just customers. I feel that when they buy from me they are investing in what I have to offer. As an investor they buy with the hope and intent to make money from their investment with me.

I personally don't like that some out there treat us as just customers who are supposed to buy their product with no questions asked. We are expected to invest good money and just blindly accept what they say and be happy we were given the privilege to buy from them. And then the kicker is when we manage to make money off of our investment they are then upset by the fact that we did so as if we stole money from their pocket.



I personally take great pride when previous investors come back and show me pictures of their bucks they grew out of stock I sold them. I am as happy as they are that their purchase worked out for them. I wish all sellers took that approach.



Again I don't buy deer or semen just to raise shooter bucks. I invest in deer and semen to raise shooters and to sell fawns and adults to help make a profit. And I encourage all new growers to run their own farms the same way. To maximize their return from their investment.



Sorry to run on like this but this hit a nerve with me.

Mike, will the people not make it right with you? I had the same thing happen years ago. It turned out that the does DNA out better then what I bought. The Amish guy that they were purchased from told us to keep them. It was his mistake and he wouldn't take any compensation due to that reason. Great guy to do business with and we have purchased several more deer from him thru the years. We worked our butts off trying to find out what they were and finally got a list of every buck that was AI'd with and every back up for the previous 3 years that they had used and checked every one of them. Sometimes straws get mislabeled or the wrong one gets used. Good luck



Roger, right on the money. Very well spoken and true. I want to see the verified pedigree that has EVERY line filled in with a name.

That is what I mean by guaranteeing DNA - if it didn't come back right the seller should make it right.



If we start insisting that everything is DNA tested all the time the real winners are the companies that do DNA and it is one more obstacle to people getting into this business. We can get to a point where the paper is more important than the deer - which I've seen already. I think this is something the industry has to be careful about.



DNA is a great thing, don't get me wrong, but it has gained favor as more deer are misrepresented. It is unfortunate that integrity seems to get lost now.

I agree with what everyone is saying, but what makes you think if someone says "I guarantee the pedigree ''it will change anything it still goes back to who you buy from. what I mean is the deer Mike and Angie bought Im sure they where not told IT MIGHT BE THIS they where told what it was and if the seller is not fixing it now than the word guarantee is just not going to make a difference.Mike and Angie I hope this works out for you and I hope whoever you bought the deer from is reading these post and will make good on the deal

I guess maybe we are from the old school where as I mentioned in another post, our reputation is important to us. We consider ourselves honorable and our word to be good - maybe not so with others. It does make a difference who you choose to do business with. Every type of business has its shysters, even one as small as the deer industry. Like the old Newhart show, anything for a buck guys. People can make genuine mistakes and DNA isn't always perfect either. We had one case where a buck came back not DNAing to the deer we were certain was the father. We asked them to run it a second time to be sure, and they came back saying we were right! So nothing is perfect.

I don't think anyone is confused by this but I should maybe say something here. My earlier posts were not directed towards Gary and Jane of Wild Rivers nor any specific person or farm really. I simply stated my personal opinion on DNA record keeping. I will admit my feelings stem from some issues I have had or am having, but they are not issues with Gary and Jane. Gary and Jane just happen to be of a differing opinion from mine at the moment on this particular topic.

I know Gary and Jane and if I was to buy something from them I would expect it would be what they say it is. As they stated in one post they breed a buck to a pen full of does that all came from the same sire. So as an example if you want a fawn from their buck Rex and you want the mother to be from a doe out of say Blue Mt Bill they can do that for you. You just won't know who the exact doe is. And that is fine for those who just want to know that is the specific cross they are getting. Rex on Blue Mt Bill, the end.



I personally like to know the exact deer on the top side AND the bottom side, and I like to trace each side back as far, and as exactly as I can. I need to be able to do this for the style of breeding I do here, and I want my DNA pedigrees to go back more than 2 generations as well. I feel this adds value to our animals and instills confidence in our breeding program to possible investors. We are able to do all this in large part to the fact we are small in numbers which allows us to focus in great detail on quality and top production.



I just thought I should make sure it was clear my personal opinions on DNA records are not based on Gary and Jane's reputations. They are good people.