fawn scouring

I have a doe fawn that seems to be scouring. She is very healthy overall.

Feeding 3 cups red cap milk, + 1/2 cup save-a-kid milk replacer + 1 tsp probiotics,+ colostrum . Feeding 2-4 ounces 5 times / day. have a second fawn just started feeding, no scours yet, but if it is the milk mix, it too will be in am. Any veteran help to a more perect mix. or something I can add to firm her up a little. She is now 4 days old

Sounds like mixing kinda rich just my thought. Couple spoons of pumpkin in milk will firm her up put 2 spoons in first bottle then one after that until firms up. This is what i do works good for me. I'm no docter thowe.

I think thats alot of replacer...

You could do without the milk replacer completely and you will probably be better off.......definitly use the pumpkin in with the mix it will fix her up..........you can keep using some pumpkin in the mix to help them from getting the scours in the future...

The most replacer I would use with that mix would be 1/8 cup, I use wet-nurse brand and use just under 1/2 cup to mix a whole bottle of straight replacer.

we are mixing 1 cup of LOL kid replacer with 1 gallon of milk, when you say she seems to be scouring what does that mean, soft stool is common in young fawns but should not be water like

I just want to offer a suggestion on red cap milk.... When the milk is hauled from the farm the to milk factory, a large portion of the fat and other nutrients are removed, leaving a minimum of 3.25% fat in whole red cap milk.



Look at any milk replacer on the market and there is a minimum of 23% fat.



I agree some folks are supposedly having good luck with whole milk, but I would be a little apprehensive to use something that has been stripped of a large portion nutrients.



I tried whole milk last year in a emergency situation. I used it for 2 weeks and noticed the fawn was not growing, was weak and his stool was starting to get a little soft. After looking into it, I realized what takes place with whole milk from the time it leaves the farm until it hits the store shelves. I got a bag of milk replacer and slowly transitioned the fawn to pure milk replacer and the stool firmed up and the fawn grew like a weed.



If you have your heart set on using red cap milk, at the very least, mix it 50/50 with milk replacer so it will be a little richer on fat and other nutrients.



Just my opinion and experiences with red cap milk...

We have a dairy in town that sells to the public and you can see the cream in the jugs. I haven't used any on the fawns but am giving it alot of thought.

I am using the red cap and my deer are doing Great...My first one I pulled has passed her brother...from what I've seen so far I can't say enough good stuff about it...You would think it was something I sell I talk about it so much.

They only take cream out of 2% 1% skim and other specialty milk. Some friends of mine have one of biggest dairy in western PA I've personaly seen how the whole process works and no cream is taken from red cap before it hits the shelf at the store. Your right on the fat content milk replacer is alot higher but also has a lot of artificial gabage in it not the same as mother milk of any kind. This is my first year using red cap but my fawns look better than ever so far and my largest is drank 24 oz last feeding at 11 days old with out one bit of bloating. Now if i had been feeding replacer after 4 oz he would have started to bloat.I'll take a picture later of fawns and post how well they look. So far i'm hooked on red cap and have nothing bt good things to say.

John,

Sorry to hear your fawns didn't do well on the Red Cap. You are the first person i have ever heard say anything negative against it.........Virgil is correct about the cream and fat.......they do not remove any from the red cap milk.....now I don't know how the milk could lose any cream or fat during shipment that does not seem possible to me......I do know many people that use it and have great results.......the milk replacer probably does have higher fat content but who knows where its coming from.......you would think a lot more things would happen turning the milk into a powder.....don't know how that process works but its got to be complicated.......but everyone has their favorite stuff to use......I suggest you use what your comfortable with...........but i can tell you without a doubt that the Red cap milk has all the cream and fat in it and the fawns that I have raised on it have all been Big.....fat......Healthy fawns........got to stick with what works!!

I agree, what works for one may not work for another... My point to the red cap milk is the low nutritional content when compared to milk replacer.



Cow milk contains, on average, 3.4% protein, 3.6% fat, 4.6% lactose, 0.7% minerals and supplies 66 kcal of energy per 3.5 ounces. See this link to wiki for more nutritional information on milk.



Compare the nutritional content of red cap milk to any milk replacer and I think you will be surprised.



I tried the red cap milk and if I had to feed 24 ounces (almost a quarter of a gallon) per feeding, maybe that's why it didn't work for me. I was only feeding about 6-8 ounces per feeding at 11 days old. At a rate of 24 ounces plus per feeding, it would take close to 50 gallons to wean a single fawn, if my calculations are correct...



I guess the bottom line is, you should feed 4-6 times more red cap milk to get the same results as milk replacer... Interesting!! I wonder why we don't feed new born human babies red cap milk?



All I can say is, if its working for you, I wouldn't change a thing. I also think I will stick to feeding ounces per day instead of gallons. I couldn't imagine carrying gallon jugs to the fawn pens, and then not having any milk left for my breakfast.....











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John are you a fisherman? You know how those fish stories go hmmm.....I think you might be over exagerating with the 24 ounces per feeding thing.......maybe you do need to feed a little more red cap (not the amount you quoted above). I like feeding something that comes straight from the cow with very little human intervention .......with the milk replacer there is a lot of human intervention and when you have that is usually when things start messing up.......I'll take feeding a little more Red cap as I say it's worth it as the fawns are fat, healthy and they wean earlier, never have trouble with scours or bloat as well as they grow as fast or faster than the fawns left on mom. We all have our ways we like......and as long as it works don't change it. Heck my baby boy has had a lot of red cap milk.....so yes i do feed it to my son too!!

ddwhitetails said:

John are you a fisherman? You know how those fish stories go hmmm.....I think you might be over exagerating with the 24 ounces per feeding thing.......maybe you do need to feed a little more red cap (not the amount you quoted above).

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virgil said:

This is my first year using red cap but my fawns look better than ever so far and my largest is drank 24 oz last feeding at 11 days old with out one bit of bloating.

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Nah, I don't fish much... Just quoting the information listed here in the discussion.



Wanting to learn more about whole milk so I could pass it along here, I talked to a friend that I went to school with who works at the local dairy. According the him, the butter fat is indeed removed from the milk and then the industry standard of 3.25% for whole milk is put back in during homogenization, along with vitamin D3. This process is due to the large variables in fat content from farm to farm and breed to breed and is done to keep the product consistent.



As I said earlier, I tried the whole milk and it didn't work for me - maybe because I didn't feed enough, I don't know. I am not bashing whole milk! Just pointing out the lower nutritional values when compared to milk replacer and suggesting that the scours "could be" the result of the whole milk - as it was in my case.



DD, I applaud the success you and others are having with whole milk and I hope the best for all of you. It really doesn't matter what you, me or the next guy uses, as long as the fawns are healthy and we are happy with the results. What works for you may not work for someone else. That's why we all share our different experiences so we can find what works and what doesn't work in our particular situations.



I do know of a farm that had some problems with rickets (weak and broken bones) while using red cap milk. Maybe this is another reason why I am coming off as not being found of using something that is clearly undernourished when compared to any of the milk replacers on the market.





Kind Regards,

John







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John is correct regular raw cow's milk is about 3.6 to 3.8 percent fat from a pretty good herd of holsteins. Now Jersey's would be about 5.4 percent fat on an average . I think I read once where a deer's milk was about 8 percent fat . There are various sources for fat content in commercial feeds and it really does depend on what those sources are . Everyones got what works for them and hey if it's working why try to fix it ? Just my opinion ...

Bones are made from calcium not fat content. Some dairies must be different than others but i made sure to check mine before buying from them we have a state min when comes to fat content milk most be higher than 3.25% to be considered whole milk.But can run as high as 4%.My dairy does take cream out and put back in seen them doing it but not with whole milk straight from cow to tank to modgenizer to pasterizer to gug to my fridge to my fawns little belly.

florida boy, just wondering how the fawn is doing. Better I hope. How bad are (or were) the scours. Let us Know. Good Luck . Allen

John,

I agree and i respect the fact that you like using the milk replacers......i am by no means an expert on milk....i do however, have many friends that are dairy farmers who have a lot more knowledge than i when it comes to whole milk. I am pleased with what i hear from them and with how my fawns respond......yes you did get the quote from virgil....virgil is a friend of mine in fact i was just up to see the actual fawn that he says ate 24 ounces at 11 days......however, that is not what the fawn is eating every feeding as you were stating earlier.....that was a one time thing....not saying it might not do it again...but it's not doing it every feeding trust me! I just don't want you to miss lead anyone who is considering using red cap..........I am the same as you and i wish you the best for you and your fawns no matter what you use....the most important thing in all of this is healthy fawns.......good luck

Florida Boy,

I apologize for getting side tracked on your thread.....I hope your scour problems are improving and if not please let us know so we can put our heads together and try to help you with your fawn!!

ddwhitetails said:

John,

I agree and i respect the fact that you like using the milk replacers......i am by no means an expert on milk....

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I too respect the fact that you are having great results while using red cap milk. I, on the other hand, did not have such great luck with it and was forced to go back to what worked best for me and the fawns.

ddwhitetails said:

i do however, have many friends that are dairy farmers who have a lot more knowledge than i when it comes to whole milk. I am pleased with what i hear from them and with how my fawns respond......

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I by no means am a milk expert either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. In all seriousness, I was born and raised on a dairy farm and pulled **** two times a day, everyday, from the time I was 10 years old until 18. I never really paid much attention to "what happens" after the milk left our bulk tank every other day. I was more interested in the milk weights and bacteria counts more so then what the dairy does with it. That is why I called Brian to find out exactly what the dairy does and if the whole or red cap milk goes straight into the jugs, which it does not.

ddwhitetails said:

yes you did get the quote from virgil....virgil is a friend of mine in fact i was just up to see the actual fawn that he says ate 24 ounces at 11 days......however, that is not what the fawn is eating every feeding as you were stating earlier.....that was a one time thing....not saying it might not do it again...but it's not doing it every feeding trust me!

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I didn't think it was taking 24 ounces every feeding - that's a lot of fluid....

ddwhitetails said:

I just don't want you to miss lead anyone who is considering using red cap..........

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I am not misleading anybody. Just stating the facts and calling it as I see it. I suggested to Florida Boy that the whole milk may be causing the same problems I was having when I tried the red cap milk in a emergency situation. One of the main reasons I am not using the red cap milk is the low nutritional content of it. With it only having around 3-4% protein, 3-4% fat and less than 1% of combined minerals, it makes you wonder how the fawn can even survive on it. Even when milking our own cows, and raising sheep and goats, the only mothers milk we fed the babies was the colostrum. Then they were on a milk replacer containing lactobacillus from then on. This is why I suggested to mix the red cap 50/50 with milk replacer in order to get the nutrients up and to thicken the red cap milk up a tad, which could help hold the fluid a bit longer and quite possibly help stiffen the stool. I don't think that was misleading in any way.

ddwhitetails said:

I am the same as you and i wish you the best for you and your fawns no matter what you use....the most important thing in all of this is healthy fawns.......good luck

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I concur... Best of luck to everyone and please read the product labels or ask your vet about any of the "home remedies" before administering. Your fawns will thank you for it....









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