Fawns down can't Stand up

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Tim Matthews

Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
42
Location
Belvidere, NJ
This year in June we had several fawns that were healthy one day and couldn't stand up the next day. We worked with several vets on this one and the Dept. of Ag. All fawns eventually died. We regularly worm with safeguard, treat for coccidia, pneumonia, etc. This happened in one of our four breeding pens. 30 days later the same thing happens in the breeding pen directly down hill. Treated with Ivomec again and the problem went away. All necropsies showed disease free, parasite free fawns that died of white muscle disease ( of course it took them up to two weeks to die). 


 


Here's my question what does ivomec control that safeguard doesn't that would cause these symptoms? You can rule out a nutritional deficiency in the feed, I've had the same feed for over 6 years and this only happened in 2 of my 4 breeding pens. You can also rule out clostridium unless there's a strain that ivomec can control.


 


Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Tim,


I .would rule out feed before clostridium.  Just because you have it in one and not the other does not mean you do not have it. 


as far as feed,  just because you feed the same feed does not mean that your feed company is not changing things to make it cheaper for them to make.  I see it all the time in horse feed.  What was good nutritionally last year does not mean it  is this year, drought and floods can really change the quality of feed, hay and your grass in your pens.


you can test selenium levels, which I think you should do.


Ear tag infections???


Lots of rain???


Pneumonia???


Rotavirus???


how much grass is in your pens???


are there any other symptoms like diarrhea, wheezing, lumps on faces, etc?
 
No other symptoms. All the deer get the same feed, why just one pen? An ear infection, pneumonia, rotavirus, etc. would be obvious, Selenium levels are fine. I've been in the business for 16 years. I've had three different vets working on this. Just thought someone may have had a similar problem.


 


If anyone has any thoughts as to what ivomec controls that safeguard does not that would cause these symptoms please let me know.
 
The ivomec could be killing fusobacterium or enterococcus species bacteria safeguard isn't that are ingested after heavy rain. Have necropsy done on a dead fawn that hasn't been treated. Check for bacterias. The immune systems are weakened in fawns by weening stress and bacterias could weaken the fawns so that they are more susceptible to the white muscle disease illness. I don't know much about white muscle disease. Bacteria fit into down hill or downstream loses. Enterococcus species are resistant to all antibiotics and should be treated with penicillin or poly flex.
 
its called floppy kid syndrome! the ph in the stomach isn't right use baking soda and water! Yes Fred H will know! JIM SIMONSON
 
Simonson962631408408752


its called floppy kid syndrome! the ph in the stomach isn't right use baking soda and water! Yes Fred H will know! JIM SIMONSON

How would you know before it is too late that the ph levels are messed up?
 
Necropsy and check for enterococcus species bacteria. Ivomec is likely getting to a bacteria safeguard isn't.
 
A few years back a friend of mine had the same issue which I didn't know about till he ask me to feed his deer while he was away,the first day I arrived I discovered one of the fawns down and immediately called him,he proceeded to tell me he had lost a few fawns already with the same symptoms and had no idea what was wrong. Of course I ask if I could take her home and try to spare her life and he agreed. This doe fawn was already a month old and raised on the mother so I knew I was in for a rough ride. I contacted my vet and we both agreed it was likely white muscle, I injected the fawn with bo-se and worked her muscles as many time as I could daily not to mention hand fed her clover buds and bowls of milk. After about three weeks of hard work it paid off she was able to stand on her own and within the next week she walked. Today 5 yrs later she is one of my top producing does. I hope this helps and you find a cure for this issue.
 
Experiencing same in 4 month old small fawn; while I have not been able to get a vet to come out to the farm but I have had two vets assisting with her care for what will be 2 weeks this weekend.  So far a wormer injection and antibiotic Oct 13, Bo-Se 1cc injection  Oct 15, and  B Complex injections on  Oct 18 and Oct 22. I have bottle fed her Bounceback (electrolytes) since Oct 13- 16 oz twice daily and for the last 5 days added 12-16 oz MannaPro milk replacer at midnight. I have fed her some clover buds and am massaging her shoulders, hips and legs.  Not up yet but is now holding her head up some on her own. She is pooping and urinating on her own and I am removing poop from her area and refreshing clean straw.  Any help appreciated.
 
We have still not figured out what happened but here is what we do know. Ivomec given every two weeks solved the problem. Out of 9 fawns that had the problem we were able to save one. Not sure what saved her because we gave her everything but the kitchen sink. Necropsies on fawns showed nothing so no help there. This is something that ivomec kills but safeguard does not. I've had two different vets work on this one and the Dept. of Ag Vet. We solved the problem but do not know what the vector was.
 
The fawn has not improved; vet has added 1cc weekly injections of Dexamethasone  and will continue BComplex 2cc weekly and will give her the 2 week follow up dose of Bo-Se 1cc.  She is still getting BounceBack twice a day and milk replacer at night. Will continue for two weeks if still surviving. Vet says the Ivercide amount given Oct 13 was enough to kill any Meningeal worm so more of that would be overkill as she is strictly being bottle fed and eating nothing from the ground. Thanks for you help. At this point I am very sad as I am not as optimistic as I was, however I will be continuing the routine until I see discomfort or other issues for her.
 
jerrilee cave991151414432241

Tim,

could they use their front legs? or were they down with all four??


Jerrilee, I am curious why you ask this. I have had a couple fawns with these symptoms and it was just there back legs. What is your thoughts?
 
Jerrilee,


 


They lost their front legs first, followed shortly by their hind legs. I suspected meningeal worm from the beginning but nothing came up in the necropsies.
 
I ask  because if it IS neurologic then that tells you what area  the lesion is in according to what limbs they can use. 


Tim I have seen infection in the chest cause them not to use their front legs and be able to use their back.  They may start out limping in one.  That is a sign of pleuritis(infection in the chest cavity).
 

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