I want your opinion !!

wvdeerman · Jul 4, 2012

I have seen this happen several times over the years. I didn't like it then, and I still don't like it. I am sure others have witnessed the same scenario, so I want to know what you think about it.

I have seen guys buy bucks for the purpose of raising/selling it for a shooter buck (with an understanding the deer will be sold/used as a shooter only), and then turn around and sell it as a breeder to someone else or use it as a breeder themselves. I have seen this done. I have seen the bucks name changed. I have seen a fake pedigree attached to the new name. And it seems in ALL circumstances that the original breeder/seller is cheated from the credit for producing the buck and the profits that were cheated from him.

What is your take on this problem in our industry?

Antlershed · Jul 4, 2012

I believe anytime I sell a deer I want that person i sell to to be sucessful and make money with that deer they by from me. I dont sell deer wanting people to fail, whenever you sell junk or try to scam someone it comes back to you and your reputation in the end, same goes if you sell the deer and the person is very successful and happy, then that again reflects your reputation. Do i believe everyone sells deer to someone hoping they succeed, No i do not, Some may be all about money and money only, I know there may be some bad deals/dealers, but those people will only hurt themselves, and in a way, they weed themselves out of the market.

I sell deer at my farm for a price that makes me happy, or if I can't be happy with a price offered I will keep it, or I will eat it, ...If they leave my farm and are resold later for more money, why should i be upset, afterall I would not sell the deer to begin with if I was not happy with the dollar amount i am getting. I know it could be hard to sell someone a buck fawn for example, then that person raises that buck fawn and it turns to a monster 2-3 year old breeder buck and they tend to forget all about the guy they bought it from, but hey, they took the risk on that animal the moment it left the property and went to theirs, and if you sold that animal cheap as a fawn, that makes it a tough pill to swallow, but in a way if its a new farmer you sold to and he is successful because of his purchase from you, then Why not be happy for him, he might return a favor for you someday. even if its in the form of directing someone new to your farm for a purchase.

I believe if when selling a solid doe or buck fawn in the spring or fall, if you ever don't want that animal to be bred without your consent, or you want restrictions on breedings, then the best way to conduct that sale is with a written and signed contract, you each get a copy and if anything happens down the road that goes against the contract, you can go about legal action because you have a contract for proof.

One thing i would not stand for is if I seen a buck(or doe) that i sold to someone, knowing for a fact that its mine, have it's pedigree changed. I think that is as wrong as it can get, sinking to that level, so i would definately confront that person on that subject. This is just my opinion.

Four Seasons Whitetails · Jul 4, 2012

Well i think if there was an understanding between buyer and seller then that has to be taken up between them. Kinda dirty but they did buy and you did sell. The problem would be if/when you could prove 100% that the deer in question has had a pedigree change. Now that gets many people involved and someone would be blown out of the water!!!

Tom Gleason · Jul 4, 2012

Antlershed said:
I believe anytime I sell a deer I want that person i sell to to be sucessful and make money with that deer they by from me. I dont sell deer wanting people to fail, whenever you sell junk or try to scam someone it comes back to you and your reputation in the end, same goes if you sell the deer and the person is very successful and happy, then that again reflects your reputation. Do i believe everyone sells deer to someone hoping they succeed, No i do not, Some may be all about money and money only, I know there may be some bad deals/dealers, but those people will only hurt themselves, and in a way, they weed themselves out of the market.

I sell deer at my farm for a price that makes me happy, or if I can't be happy with a price offered I will keep it, or I will eat it, ...If they leave my farm and are resold later for more money, why should i be upset, afterall I would not sell the deer to begin with if I was not happy with the dollar amount i am getting. I know it could be hard to sell someone a buck fawn for example, then that person raises that buck fawn and it turns to a monster 2-3 year old breeder buck and they tend to forget all about the guy they bought it from, but hey, they took the risk on that animal the moment it left the property and went to theirs, and if you sold that animal cheap as a fawn, that makes it a tough pill to swallow, but in a way if its a new farmer you sold to and he is successful because of his purchase from you, then Why not be happy for him, he might return a favor for you someday. even if its in the form of directing someone new to your farm for a purchase.

I believe if when selling a solid doe or buck fawn in the spring or fall, if you ever don't want that animal to be bred without your consent, or you want restrictions on breedings, then the best way to conduct that sale is with a written and signed contract, you each get a copy and if anything happens down the road that goes against the contract, you can go about legal action because you have a contract for proof.

One thing i would not stand for is if I seen a buck(or doe) that i sold to someone, knowing for a fact that its mine, have it's pedigree changed. I think that is as wrong as it can get, sinking to that level, so i would definately confront that person on that subject. This is just my opinion.

Very well said

RLAwhitetails · Jul 4, 2012

When certian breeder buck's are sold later in there life as shooter's and it was an agreement that the buck would not be used to breed or be drawn and and in fact he was then that would be wrong. If a yound buck was sold to be raised to shoot but he grew into a monster then was used as a breeder that I would not see a problem with that. Changing or giving a falce pedigree should be a crime and never be done, that's why I like dna'ed animal's.

fars · Jul 7, 2012

If you sell a buck for a shooter then it shouldn't be used for a breeder.

Having said that however...once you sell that shooter buck you just as well expect them to use it for a breeder buck. It's how alot of people are...like it or not. Corruption starts at the top of our society and runs downhill.

lordbix · Jul 21, 2012

one way to control this would be to castrate the buck before he leaves your farm ???

daywoodwhitetails · Jul 21, 2012

first a ? if you castrate a buck and he doesn't get harvested would he be able to produce a new rack the next yr and as far as breeding a shooter if you sell him and the buyer pays you it is his deer to do as he pleases the only problem i can see is the guy being a lair as far as you agreeing on what the deer would be used for and the fact he changed the pedigree if you sell a young deer that turns out to be a awesome breeder then i say good for the guy that bought him and took a chance at what you didn't .

ddwhitetails · Jul 21, 2012

Daywood......you are correct if you would castrate the buck he would never produce any kind of antler the next year...if he did it wouldn't be much........I beleive if you sell a buck that the person purchasing it should be able to use it how ever he chooses.....however, if he changed the pedigree then this is a case of false advertisement and he should be held accountable for his actions........just my thoughts...

Buckskin · Jul 22, 2012

When I sell a shooter they don't get a pedigree just the deer. If they want to breed with it then go for it. I got the money I wanted for it so I shouldn't be upset. Now if he makes up a pedigree for it and I know it I will call him on it. Rick

Tom Gleason · Jul 22, 2012

When A deer is sold then he is now the new owners to do as they want unless a deal was made first

Hunters Dream · Jul 22, 2012

Here is our take on it based on our first year to sell any deer.

We are selling our 3 yr old breeder he has served his purpose on our farm. We have bred up our genetics. When he leaves our farm he is going to benefit the next farm. If he goes to a ranch and they sell him to another person as a breeder then so be it. If our genetics had not improved we would not be selling him.

We are also selling some of our yearling bucks. We could be making a mistake but we have to make room. Any one of these bucks could be the next greatest breeder on the market. He is gone but we will be associated with that buck forever.

That is the same with the doe fawns we are selling you just never know.

If we sell any of our deer obviously the buyer is looking to use the buck or doe to improve his genetics. I am fine with that because that deer on our farm has no better genetics than the best we already have. The decision to sell we have made, and we hope that everything we sell meets or exceeds the expectations for the buyer.

Just my take on the situation.

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I want your opinion !!

wvdeerman

Antlershed

Four Seasons Whitetails

Tom Gleason

RLAwhitetails

fars

lordbix

daywoodwhitetails

ddwhitetails

Buckskin

Tom Gleason

Hunters Dream

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