If we accept the CWD rule/standards?

Yes great meeting but also some red flags were throw up by some very smart people. The blood test research only being done on animals that were infected to cwd by people. The two different routes could make a huge different with the outcome. All the false negitives and false positives?  Then What!


 


When he says be careful what you ask for he has Ny's outcome on his mind. You throw out all these rules and standards and then states can make their own rules and like happened to us. They Will.  Also many states will not accept animals from states that do not test up to that states standards.  Many things still in the grey area and like someone said tonight.  There is no direction to take that will be good for every state. But any new direction cant hurt at this point!

Angie,


The research thus far has been on experimentally infected animals and that is why CSU is very interested in samples from naturally infected animals.  It is going to take money to collect those samples and continue the research.  We have had a lot of positive comments about this particular blood test, but are proceeding with caution.  When Dr. Davis said to proceed with caution he was referring to research and a live test, not the CWD rule. I have spoken with Dr. Davis in great detail and he is not in favor of keeping the federal rule.  He supports putting the regulations back in the hands of the producers and the state agencies.  


 


Shawn is correct in saying the industry asked for this rule, but when we requested it we were in support of a unified rule that would hold all states to the same standards.  That didn't happen...the states did not want the federal government to tell them what to do so they petitioned USDA to pull the 2006 version of the rule.  Now we as an industry are faced with a rule that allows states to do what they want but still forces states to abide by the federal rule.  Without the federal rule, the Flees' breeding  farm would probably not be quarantined.  The federal rule forced the state of Wisconsin to quarantine their farm for a period of 5 years, giving them credit for the 3 years since the animal left the farm.  Don't let folks fool you that this rule helps to keep us in commerce...it does nothing but prevent states from using common sense to regulate this disease.


Laurie

Yes i heard what Dr said and he made great points. You had better know how your state and state vet is going to handle a false neg, false positive or a true positve for that matter. You leave it all in the states hands and who knows what some will do. They could still talk double fence and 5 years.  The words he said.. Be careful what you ask for..  Makes one think.

jerrilee cave897961389768144



the live test that is being pursued is one that uses a monoclonal antibody to detect the PRION itself in the blood.  This is not a blood test that determines the patients antibodies in response to infection of a prion. 


 


MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY DEFINITION


Given almost any substance, it is possible to produce monoclonal antibodies that specifically bind to that substance; they can then serve to detect or purify that substance. This has become an important tool in biochemistry, molecular biology and medicine. When used as medications, the non-proprietary drug name ends in -mab (see "Nomenclature of monoclonal antibodies"). 


 


"The blood test research only being done on animals that were infected to cwd by people. The two different routes could make a huge different with the outcome."


 


Angie,


a prion in the blood is a prion in the blood irregardless of how it got there.  Now, the ability of infecting an animal is something totally different and really not a concern of the  live test ability to detect prions in the blood and its  sensitivity  or  false +/- 's. To determine how quickly prions can be detected after exposure, it  could possibly be accelerated by the dose used to infect, thecondition of the animal, and natural vs experimental infection.  I would think that environmnental exposure would take longer to see in the blood but research will tell the story.  This information will be needed to determine how often a herd would need to be tested if they have a +.  The initial research has shown the quaking test has  80 % detection of prions and 100% specificity.




Right..Meaning, Like he said, False test could be very easy in the negitive or the positive. He made it very clear when he said you better know where your vet stands on these.  Sky's the limit with states vet's. either way its something that needs to go forward. We need something! Just hope the true supporters are there when needed.

A lot of good comments here and I'm glad careful thought is being given to each one.


 


Yes we did ask for a federal rule but we expected something reasonable, not something that would create more hardships. When ACA promised they could keep the wildlife agencies out of this final rulemaking process, there was hope but when ACA could not deliver their promise, there was no real hope for a reasonable outcome for this federal rule. I don't think we have any other reasonable choice but to reject the rule.

Pretty simple, If there is supposedly no issue with the wording and mentioning of double fencing then why won't Patty Kline throw it out? If we are dumb enough to trust someone who has worked for the HSUS at a top level to put together rules and standards that would be good for our industry then we should be put out of business.  I also believe that if we as an industry are the ones who want this standard and rule then why would we go ahead with something we are not happy with hoping they will take the things we don't agree with later?? If someone actually believes this standard will get more lenient and throw out the parts we don't agree with once the govt adopts it is insane. This "disease" is nothing but political and as they were saying, us pushing for a standard is just keeping the issue that really isn't an issue alive. I'd bet more deer die in my county every year from EHD then do in the whole country over the last 6 years from CWD. If they are so concerned about the deer population, then why is every state on this kick trying to kill as many does as possible? It's simply the wildlife people trying to eliminate there competition and the HSUS trying to put us out of business.


 


Cody

sdbigbucks898071389818501



Pretty simple, If there is supposedly no issue with the wording and mentioning of double fencing then why won't Patty Kline throw it out? If we are dumb enough to trust someone who has worked for the HSUS at a top level to put together rules and standards that would be good for our industry then we should be put out of business.  I also believe that if we as an industry are the ones who want this standard and rule then why would we go ahead with something we are not happy with hoping they will take the things we don't agree with later?? If someone actually believes this standard will get more lenient and throw out the parts we don't agree with once the govt adopts it is insane. This "disease" is nothing but political and as they were saying, us pushing for a standard is just keeping the issue that really isn't an issue alive. I'd bet more deer die in my county every year from EHD then do in the whole country over the last 6 years from CWD. If they are so concerned about the deer population, then why is every state on this kick trying to kill as many does as possible? It's simply the wildlife people trying to eliminate there competition and the HSUS trying to put us out of business.


 


Cody




 


 


AMEN Cody!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/18/HSUS-PRESSURES-USDA-TO-EMBRACE-FAUX-CRISIS-THREATEN-HUNTING


 


This pretty much sums it up people!!! If the link doesn't work, copy and paste it into google and it should pop up.


 


Cody

Excellant article, Cody.  Thanks for posting.


 


Gary

Look at all the thousands of harvested animals that cross state lines every day during hunting season in the back end of a pick up truck, THOUSANDS COMING OUT OF WHAT ARE CONSIDERED "ENDEMIC" AREAS! This "disease"  has ABSOLUTELY NO real effects on deer or elk populations at all compared to the over harvest of antlerless does and cows by greedy DNR departments. They are watching "there" numbers and quality crash and are to dumb to be able to figure out just why that is. Most under informed people just listen to what these DNR and QDMA orgs. keep preaching and don't really look around and see what is going on in the areas they hunt. Our public ground that used to have good deer numbers are completely wiped out with the over harvest of "antlerless" deer. Our DNR sells a $20 doe license and then pays the processor $70 if the hunter donates it to the "hungry". I guess I look at that as getting rid of a productive doe and loosing $50 per deer to boot! Ah, but it looks good to the public to give to the needy and gives the Wildlife Federation cry babies something to shoot in hopes they will quit whining about not having any free places to hunt because everything has supposedly gone commercial these days. I have news for these Federation idiots, when a farmer tells you he leased his place out and you can't hunt there anymore, it's because you probably pissed him off when you brought out 10 buddies instead of just yourself and it's his "nice" way of telling you to get lost. All these people are supposedly against high fence hunting yet 3,627 people applied for ONE elk tag in Custer State Park, which is high fenced. If you offered a free hunt to these same people, they all do it.

Cody,


 Type this into you tube.  


In Minnesota some deer hunters are trying to get a petition to INCREASE the state deer herd.  They say there isn't enough deer to shoot.  They say they weren't large enough "stakeholders" at the table, and the farmers, insurance companies, and forestry people got to much say in deer numbers.   DAH !!!  These hunters are not stakeholders, but pan handlers!!!!  They don't have a pony in the race.  They buy a $30 tag and thinks that pays the cost of a deer.  We as deer farmers know what a deer eats in a year.


 


http://youtu.be/Mkq_LQwMVU8

You are exactly right, I always ask these wildlife federation people who have 2 full time lobbyists during our legislature, what have they EVER brought to the table other then they are a resident of this state! It's amazing to me how many of these law-makers actually listen to them, it must have something to do with the fact that they sit right with our DNR guys at every meeting. They also never bring anything to the table!

They want a larger "entitlement".  How can it be called anything else.  You may as well call the wild deer herd, "Obama Deer".  


They don't know the what the "true cost" of the states deer herd really is.  


They say that their deer hunting is a "right", and I have seen them say that us raising deer is a "privilege".  Don't they have it turned around?


They say WE threaten the "greater good", which is the same as the "good of the all".   Do you know what that is the definition of?   Look under Wikipedia, very first line in first paragraph.  That is the definition of "communism"!


Scary, isn't it!!!   Do they realize what they are promoting?

sdbigbucks898311389903405



http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/18/HSUS-PRESSURES-USDA-TO-EMBRACE-FAUX-CRISIS-THREATEN-HUNTING


 


This pretty much sums it up people!!! If the link doesn't work, copy and paste it into google and it should pop up.


 


Cody




 


Cody, It can't be written much better than that...  I hope everyone reads this... Thanks for posting...

Not sure how we all missed this article, but thanks for sharing it!!!


 


Here it is if the link from above doesn't work.


 


 

HSUS PRESSURES USDA TO EMBRACE FAUX-CRISIS, THREATENS HUNTING
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margin-left:0px;0px margin-left:0px;;(119,119,119);font-style:italicby JOE 'THE PLUMBER' WURZELBACHER  margin-left:0px;;(119,119,119);font-style:italic18 Jul 2013  margin-left:0px;;(119,119,119);font-style:italic73 margin-left:0px;;(119,119,119);font-style:normalPOST A COMMENT

Many of those who donate to the Humane Society of the United States are unaware of the fact that HSUS is one of the greatest foes to fishing and hunting in the country.  Wayne Pacelle, President of HSUS, on numerous occasions has revealed his personal disdain for the American sport.  Pacelle was once quoted by the AP saying, “If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would.â€�  To date, HSUS has spearheaded upwards of25 anti-hunting ballot initiatives across the country.  Like many Fabian left-wing groups, HSUS takes an incremental approach in making hunting progressively more difficult through additional regulation of the sport at the ballot box and in state legislatures.  
margin-left:0px;16pxOne of the main targets is what HSUS refers to as canned hunts.  These hunts are of wildlife bred in captivity and released over a large, enclosed area for hunting.  HSUS believes that it is “cruelâ€� to breed animals for the purpose of hunting, but these hunting areas have provided business opportunities to many struggling, rural Americans and have also allowed hunters to enjoy the sport in a controlled and safe environment.  In fact, many of the species bred in captivity would have long since gone extinct, but for the cultivation of these businesses. 
margin-left:0px;16pxFor radical animal rights activists, however, the needs of animals always outweigh the needs of humans.  
margin-left:0px;16pxAs Rahm Emanuel aptly taught us, it is critical to create a crisis in order to quickly implement one’s agenda.  
margin-left:0px;16pxHSUS seems to have found their silver bullet against captive hunting in an obscure ailment known as “Chronic Wasting Disease,â€� or CWD.  CWD is a progressive disease which in rare occasions afflicts older cervids (read: deer) and results, over time, in brain lesions and ultimately, death.  According to the Center for Disease Control, there is no evidence that CWD poses any threat to humans who consume a deer with the disease, nor is there any way the disease could spread to domestic livestock.  Infection rates among your average white-tailed deer linger at less than 1%.  Infected deer can live quite a long time with the disease, produce healthy fawns, and remain nearly symptom free until their deaths.  
margin-left:0px;16pxBy now you might be thinking: What’s the big deal?  However, to HSUS, and lately the USDA, CWD is a massive crisis crying out for a swift passage of numerous regulations on captive hunting farmers.  According to HSUS’s website, in order to address the CWD crisis, states must ban all game farms and captive hunting, as well as end the transportation of any deer across state lines, a move which would effectively decimate the ability of deer farmers to make money and to breed genetically diversified livestock.  
margin-left:0px;16pxUnsurprisingly, it is not difficult to determine the source of the USDA’s newfound obsession with CWD.  The head of the CWD Program at the USDA is none other than Dr. Patrice Klein. Dr. Klein is a former employee of the Humane Society of the United States where she served as a Wildlife Veterinarian and Director.  
margin-left:0px;16pxJust last year, the USDA took HSUS’ policy recommendations to heart.  In their newCWD Program Standards manual, they proclaim that the most reasonable course to be taken once a deer on a captive farm tests positive is complete eradication of the entire herd. These irradiations are done entirely at the owner’s expense and leave little avenue for appeal to the farmer. The USDA also has begun to test the waters for extensive regulation of the transportation of cervids across state lines with a new “voluntaryâ€� policy which sets the guidelines under which interstate trafficking of deer can occur. The USDA admits that it has no idea how CWD is spread, yet it still holds that entire herds should be destroyed if even one deer develops this disease which occurs naturally and does not in any way affect humans!
margin-left:0px;16pxWhile CWD may pose some threat to cervid species and may be worthy of study, analysis, and careful monitoring, the disease should definitely not be used as an excuse to destroy hunting and farming in accordance with the extreme agenda of a radical few. In the rare cases of CWD infection, deer farmers have shown great success at controlling the disease within their herds.  
margin-left:0px;16pxFear mongering from HSUS has nonetheless resulted in gross overreactions that have completely destroyed some American farms.  Bottom line: HSUS is out to destroy people’s way of life, not help animals. They are an extremist, radical, corrupt group bent on taking away the rights of law abiding citizens through deceit, manipulation, and intimidation.

For decades we have had issues with state and federal agencies. When the feds make a rule the states say they have the authority to govern their own borders and create state regulations that are not in our industries best interest and vice-versa. Why do you suppose the two constantly disagree? It's simple...divide and conquer! As long as there are ever changing regulations there is no way for our industry to prosper. I have witnessed regulation changes all over the country for the last 25 years. These ambiguities are by design (in my opinion) and intentionally structured to keep a boot on our throats. Why? Plain and simple ....MONEY. As hunting revenues (both state and federal) continue to decrease, regardless of the reasons, it is and most likely always be perceived to be the fault of those of us who intend to privately own deer and exotics. I fear we will continue this dance for eternity.

Maybe we should start hunting them, HSUS!

I keep waiting for science and common sense to prevail. But alas I believe I am being naive. Thank you Shawn, Charly, Laurie and David (just to name a few) for your relentless pursuit for justice.