I was labelled as one of those just a year and a half ago as saying the sky was falling as far as our industry goes......now I was labelled that and was certainly not implying that the sky was falling at the time....I was only implying we were in for hard times which we are experiencing now.......but I would like to hear what others thoughts are on the future of our industry...and where we need to focus to keep our industry on the right track to success!! Things are tough and are only going to get a little tougher in the future....we need to think out of the box a little to keep ourselves afloat....ideas?
Just curious?!
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Joined May 2010
388 Posts | 0+
Stevens Point/Gillett, WI
Dennis, glad you mention this. I firmly believe that we (not just owners but everyone active within the industry) need to get ahead of ourselves in anyway possible whether its disease research/management or introducing lay individuals to our field. As of about two weeks ago, i am proud to say, i recieved an offer to do a graduate level study with captive whitetails. The question from here is where do i take it? As owners of deer I will shortly be asking for all of your help, what is most important to you or what can i devote +2 years of research to in order to make your lives easier? (I would like to refrain from CWD, TB, or EHD research because im already having trouble with funding and this would only magnify it.) Of course, research like this isnt going to directly make anyone $ (to begin), but i also think it shows an effort of going above and beyond which can be crucial when times get hard.
We have a lot of work to do to say the least. An example is my professor, who is a disease and captive animal specialist at the University of Wisconsin Stevens Point, has never even been to a deer farm. I was kind of amazed especially at the close proximity to campus and local farms. With that being said, we are given the gift of being able to do better research and identification and i dont believe as a whole the industry is doing this. Lots to ponder!
We have a lot of work to do to say the least. An example is my professor, who is a disease and captive animal specialist at the University of Wisconsin Stevens Point, has never even been to a deer farm. I was kind of amazed especially at the close proximity to campus and local farms. With that being said, we are given the gift of being able to do better research and identification and i dont believe as a whole the industry is doing this. Lots to ponder!
Where are we going??? I know where we have been. I have had whitetails for about 25 years. Back then any deer was worth some good money with fawns at $350 -$800 in the fall . No great back round or pedigree. A good buck was 150 - 250 max. and you could make good money on them too. A 250 buck was 15 -20 K and easy to sell.
Then suddenly , it seemed , when cwd came and people started to do AI and sell semen to survive that the measurements started to go up fast and to sizes and ages never seen before. Some of the biggest ones went for huge money and with straws of semen for sale from these deer , anyone could dream of "the big one" instead of wish. Before this , you had to have lots of money and luck to purchase a fawn or doe out of the small number of "naturally" born offspring from these deer.
Now , seems everyone has the bloodlines of the best there is to offer and the number of big and huge bucks born every year, in the name of trying to have the biggest one , is staggering. These bucks are just over run production of "culls" in the "arms race" to have bigger. These over run bucks have gone from 150s to start with all the way to 3-4 hundreds now.
But here is the thing.......the hunter , the one we are supposed to producing for , doesn't want or need these huge deer as he doesn't have the money or inclination to have such a deer on the wall . Joe the plumber is just the average guy with years of hunting and no luck on a huge 10 point that goes 150 -180 . Yes you can sell hunts for the huge ones for lots of money but with the size of the bucks now and price , you make the cost prohibitive to Joe and there are lots more Joes than the rich guys and we need numbers of hunters not just the elite to hunt our deer. Making the average hunter either jealous of these hunts or turned off by them because the deer look abnormal , you take the chance of having hunters in general going against our industry.
The industry isn't demanding these mega bucks or needing them. What ever the maximum size deer that is raised and sold to hunt situations , that is the max size that is needed. Do we need a car to go to work with 600 horse power??? no If the biggest engine produced was 100 horse then that is all that will be asked for . In the deer world , it would be so much easier to produce smaller deer , healthier for the deer, the deer more like trophy wild deer which is all that is asked for or needed.
People raising them for their huge size could still do it for each others sales but if they didn't dump their over run on the hunt market , people like me , yes this is my real gripe , could have a good market and sell all of their deer for good money instead of being shut out because the number of deer ,250 -400 now , breeding shortfalls , take the place of mine as they are bought for cheap to clear the pens of the big breeders .
Where we are going in my opinion....down a slope into raising deer that don't look like deer , not backed by hunters as being whitetails or looking wild , with the consumer not getting what they really dream of and lots of people going out of business and laws squishing the crap out of the ones trying to stay in. Not sunny or dreamy but I didn't just fall off a turnip truck and this is how my "deer breeding " life has gone in these years of doing it, this is what I see . Jim
Then suddenly , it seemed , when cwd came and people started to do AI and sell semen to survive that the measurements started to go up fast and to sizes and ages never seen before. Some of the biggest ones went for huge money and with straws of semen for sale from these deer , anyone could dream of "the big one" instead of wish. Before this , you had to have lots of money and luck to purchase a fawn or doe out of the small number of "naturally" born offspring from these deer.
Now , seems everyone has the bloodlines of the best there is to offer and the number of big and huge bucks born every year, in the name of trying to have the biggest one , is staggering. These bucks are just over run production of "culls" in the "arms race" to have bigger. These over run bucks have gone from 150s to start with all the way to 3-4 hundreds now.
But here is the thing.......the hunter , the one we are supposed to producing for , doesn't want or need these huge deer as he doesn't have the money or inclination to have such a deer on the wall . Joe the plumber is just the average guy with years of hunting and no luck on a huge 10 point that goes 150 -180 . Yes you can sell hunts for the huge ones for lots of money but with the size of the bucks now and price , you make the cost prohibitive to Joe and there are lots more Joes than the rich guys and we need numbers of hunters not just the elite to hunt our deer. Making the average hunter either jealous of these hunts or turned off by them because the deer look abnormal , you take the chance of having hunters in general going against our industry.
The industry isn't demanding these mega bucks or needing them. What ever the maximum size deer that is raised and sold to hunt situations , that is the max size that is needed. Do we need a car to go to work with 600 horse power??? no If the biggest engine produced was 100 horse then that is all that will be asked for . In the deer world , it would be so much easier to produce smaller deer , healthier for the deer, the deer more like trophy wild deer which is all that is asked for or needed.
People raising them for their huge size could still do it for each others sales but if they didn't dump their over run on the hunt market , people like me , yes this is my real gripe , could have a good market and sell all of their deer for good money instead of being shut out because the number of deer ,250 -400 now , breeding shortfalls , take the place of mine as they are bought for cheap to clear the pens of the big breeders .
Where we are going in my opinion....down a slope into raising deer that don't look like deer , not backed by hunters as being whitetails or looking wild , with the consumer not getting what they really dream of and lots of people going out of business and laws squishing the crap out of the ones trying to stay in. Not sunny or dreamy but I didn't just fall off a turnip truck and this is how my "deer breeding " life has gone in these years of doing it, this is what I see . Jim
ddwhitetails said:
Please take this as a positive,constructive thought.
For those deer folk looking for a bit of relief from CWD & EHD, fallow could be an alternative worth persuing.
My prediction is that they will increase in popularity there because of these diseases.
Dont look at reds,elk,sika or other species from the genus cervus as these will also suffer CWD.
Cheers Sharkey
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
The hunting preserves are the lifeblood of the deer industry. If they are successful the industry is viable. The beauty of Whitetails over fallow or elk is that each one is unique and there are so many different styles, it is what keeps people coming back for more.
As for big deer I think there has been an adjustment in the pricing of hunts for bigger deer already. That is why hunting preserves have been paying less. The hunter is going to spend the same amount of money, but he may just be getting a bigger deer for that money.
As for big deer I think there has been an adjustment in the pricing of hunts for bigger deer already. That is why hunting preserves have been paying less. The hunter is going to spend the same amount of money, but he may just be getting a bigger deer for that money.
Joined Oct 2009
3,165 Posts | 1+
upstate ny
Wild Rivers Whitetails said:
Thats going to be the part that hurts us. Breeding ourselves out of business. What was a 150in hunt is now a 200in hunt. The bigger we make them the worse we are going to be in the end. Something will have to give in time!
I agree Mike........we are slowly breeding ourselves into a future mess.........I believe we have also not been good stewards of the awesome Whitetails we have been blessed to raise.......when we are breeding animals that can no longer carry their head gear and have to be cut half way through the growing season.....there is something wrong with that.....We have a responsibility for these animals and when we let our pride, greed or bragging rights supersede our responsibility for the proper care of our animals.....its just not right.....I am not saying we are all doing this and I do understand that sometimes it just happens.....but if you know the cross you are breeding with is known to produce these types of deer then I honestly think you are being selfish and truly do not have the respect for the animals that you are raising.......these Whitetails were made to be proud of their head gear......when the head gear comes to the point that it has become a handicap for them......something has already started to give and the poor deer are the ones suffering.......just an opinion.....
While fallow deer are nice, they will never have the following whitetail have here in the states. Therefore, they will never bring enough money to justify raising them. Besides flukes will kill them dead in about 4 monthes in the northern states.
If the feed price continues to go up and the price of shooter bucks keeps going down it's going to wipe out most farmers producing shooters.
If the drought abates significantly and the oil shales in North Dakota pan out into another boom, it might just might lower feed prices and give enough disposable income to the upper middle class to increase shooter buck demand again. I wouldn't hold my breath on that though.
If the drought abates significantly and the oil shales in North Dakota pan out into another boom, it might just might lower feed prices and give enough disposable income to the upper middle class to increase shooter buck demand again. I wouldn't hold my breath on that though.
I just can't see anything good for the whitetail breeder's in the near future. If thing's keep heading the way they have in recent year's I think most will be gone in 5 year's. I think one more round of ehd like some farm's seen this year would be the final blow for many, I know that's all it would take for me to just quit. It is sad that nice clean typical's will not pay the bill's, a true 180 typical is a monster buck. Most will hunt a lifetime in the wild and never see a deer like that . If you read the public hunting forum's you will not find many that suport the captive deer farmer's, they are all about how wrong it is for the breeder's to raise the big ugly nt whitetail's or how the farm's are spreading this or that to the wild deer even though it may not be from fact's that is what they have been told. The general hunting public would like to see the farm's gone. Though as long as this is still the USA every farm should be able to raise deer as they see fit. Just not sure how much longer it will stay that way.
Joined Apr 2009
1,428 Posts | 0+
Northeast Wisconsin
High fence hunting is growing and as long as that continues there will be a market for whitetail deer.
We survive this year and I think we will be ok.......for a while longer anyhow.......we really do need to focus a little more on how we breed our animals though.....we just need to keep the Whitetails best interests in mind....nothing more and nothing less! And we are NOT doing that right now.......and it s hurting our image.......
Joined Apr 2009
1,231 Posts | 0+
PA
fars said:
I don't know where you mean by northern states~
but....I have raised Fallow deer for about 7 years now and my boyfriend has for alot longer than that...We lost one of his Fallow Doe's last year and she was 19 years old and she was still giving us a fawn every year!! The reason we lost her was she got run down, because at weaning time she was still feeding all the fawns so she lost alot of weight before winter.
We don't have any kind of problem with them. They are so much easier and cheaper to feed than whitetail and we never have to worm them or deal with any problems that my Whitetails have.
