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Lets Talk Nice

Joined Jul 2010
429 Posts | 1+
Waynesboro, Pa 17268
Enough talk about a sluggish market already!



I want to know what are some of you all doing to adjust in this market. What good changes are you making to adapt your bussiness to todays market? More marketing? Bettering Genetics? Fixing Fence? What can you do to get the passion back for deer farming if you lost it? What are you excited about this breeding season? Whats going good for you so far in 2010? What do you have plan for 2011 that has you all fired up?



There are some good things going on for some of us. Lets hear em!
 
Despite the market being way down, i am enjoying every moment of deer farming right now. this was the first year i had enough animals to sell, and sales were great for me. I am so excited for the next few years, i have some super genetics coming in, deer are actually so cheap right now, even really good stuff, (just look at WE for exampe) so i am taking advantage of that and just praying that stuff starts going back up in price in the next few years, definately a time to buy. but i really just enjoy watching my herd every night and i cannot wait until i have pens full of monster bucks, I am getting so close i can vision it now. right now my biggest buck is probably about 190", so i really want bigger stuff. All I can do for the market right now is tell everyone i can ((at least those i know that hunt) to consider a high fence hunting, and how much fun it can be and just keep praying the Lord will continue to bless this industry.
 
thats great im happy for you!



We are also having a great year bought our first power doe breed to Maxbo Velocity est. 240 to 260 @2 and she droped 4 fawns for us two doe and two buck. We are purchasing another doe this year bread to a Rold gold son named Head Gear est. 280 to 305 @ 2. Plus rearing up for our first AI this year and bought some pretty good straws. Dont know who we are going to breed with quite yet but we have a little bit of time.



We also sold all the deer we wanted to this year. The last bottle fed fawn goes sat. So its been a great year for us also. look forward to the next.



wish you and everyone all the best and good luck!
 
Circle J Ranch,

I tell you what. I will join your discussion as I would much rather talk about the positives in this industry instead of hashing the same ol' same ol' over again.



Oh I don't know, things like despite one of the worst economic times in many many years and how many folks are still making money with their deer either in shooting stock or in breeding stock. Many industries it takes years to turn a profit and then some times it never does happen and they close their doors. I know of several who are having their best years ever the last couple of years since starting in deer. They have planned properly and made wise buying choices and have reaped the rewards of their hard work.



I won't speak any more for those folks, but I will share with you our fortunes the last couple of years.



Over 15 years ago my AWESOME wife (who I would give everything up for in a heartbeat) and I started with deer. We were fortunate to have folks who were very knowledgeable in growing whitetails to help us. Those folks did everything they could to guide us to the extent they could. I did have to see that they were more of the old school style of raising deer and therefore keep in mind that new ideas might be worth while looking into.



I combined many of the new ideas along with the old proven techniques and studied my butt off looking at what had worked for others. Not just in drugs and handling but in genetics and sales as well.



Back when CWD was all the rage;) and many were jumping ship or cutting back we took steps to increase the quality of our production by purchasing top notch does and semen, and we put in motion a plan to open a high fence hunting facility in partnership with another deer grower.



The investment we made in the hunting area has more than paid for its self and our decision to increase the quality of our breeding does was also a successful plan. Every year after making that decision we saw an increase in the size of the bucks we were producing. That increase in size of the bucks was great to see because it told me that what I was really trying to do was maybe working. My real intention with our herd was to increase the quality of our breeding does each and every year.



I can honestly say I have never planned a breeding to try and grow a big buck. My planning has always been to raise the strongest and most prolific herd of does possible. My theory was that along the way if your doing things right you will grow some big bucks.



In 2009 we had a 268 4/8" 2 year old buck. In 2010 he is estimated to be right around 300" and carries a massive frame with super long tines and the correctly placed extras to make him just what I was hoping for. He has a womb brother who has sort of been lingering in the shadows of him as well. That brother is a cleaner and wider version but still carries the same great pedigree and is estimated to be 210" to 220" at age 3 this year. Super long tines, wide, and a laid out style that resembles his grand father to a large extent. Which of course shows he is bred with predictability.



But through all this we continued to build the quality of the doe herd which has always been our herd strategy. I can say that in the fall of 2010 we are breeding the most amazing lineup of does to date. And I am continuing to stay focused on my original breeding plan by breeding specific does to specific bucks for a specific reason.



In the January of 2009 we entered our very first auction offering some of the very best we had to offer at that time. This was 14 years after entering the whitetail deer industry. That auction was a success for us and put us in just a little better position in the industry in terms of farm recognition. But more than anything it was a great feeling to see the rewards of the many years of hard work, investment and effort my wife and I had made. When our lots sold at that first auction I was not only proud for my wife and I, but also for those who had helped us get started so many years before. I only wish one of the major players that helped us could have lived to see it.



The following year we again participated at auction and done well. It also was a great season for us not only at the auction house, but also aside from the auctions because of a great partnership that we developed with Dream Ranch on one of our big bucks we produced. That partnership was as I see it yet another reward for our hard work and investments over the many years.



This auction season we are planning to again offer some outstanding lots for sale. Again some of the very best we have to offer, and they are even better than ever before. Just what they are, and in which sales each lot will be is still being debated, and is of course yet to be juried by the auction houses. I am however confident that these lots will be selected for entry to the sales, and that bidders will see the top quality being offered.



This posting may sound like a bunch of horn blowing hype to some. But what those folks need to realize is that Laurie and I started with 2 deer and one pen a half acre in size. We hand built the pens ourselves to save money, we didn't have big dollars to invest when we started. I recall the first time I told Laurie I wanted to buy a doe fawn for $800. She had a COW saying, "Are you nuts!?!? I am not buying a fawn for $800 just to have the thing die on us!!!"



My point is we started with nothing, from nothing, and worked our way to where we are today. Learning as we went. Back then vets would barely even talk to us deer folks about a deer much less did they know anything about treating a deer. We struggled and fought for everything we have accomplished over the past 15 years. We are not rich folks even though some will doubt this fact because of what I do now for a living and what Laurie does. But you have to remember we started in deer over 15 years ago and built it slowly to now.



What is the point to all this? Well it should be clear but to some it won't be so here is the long and short of it. If your new such as less than 5 years into deer be patient. Make wise buying choices. Never spend more than you can afford to lose because deer can and do die. Study and study some more. Vets don't know everything and most times they are just a place for you to bounce ideas around and then get the drugs you need to try and fix the issue your self. Deer are not all created alike. Some produce better than others and some are worth more than others. True this is not always the same thing. My advice is select what produces and what is worth more than the average, and use both to move your herd forward. If your rather new at this, don't try and reinvent the wheel. Take what is proven and develop it from there.



The economy is down. News flash!!! HaHaHa, like everyone didn't know this already. What this means is now is the time to buy to improve your herds. JR Ewing said the time to buy oil rigs was when the price of oil was down. Well folks oil is down now. That said buy WISELY please. Don't fall for smooth talking folks who are trying to sell what they have not had luck selling before now. Study the sales books and do your homework.



Plan carefully, buy wisely, keep costs low, but don't skimp on the important stuff. Don't save a dollar now to spend or waste two dollars later. Don't lose a valuable animal by skimping on the drugs you choose to use. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. Buy bloodlines that hold their value and produce time after time. Stay informed about the markets in your area and try and make alliances with those who can help you. And never be afraid to ask for help from those who have been there and done that.



There is money to be made in this industry to those who take their time and invest wisely. And there is a ton of fun to be had as well.



Enjoy yourself!
 
Thanks roger for all your words and thoughts. No truer word have ever been said. This has to be one of the best jurneys I have ever takin on!!! When all else fails in our every day travels there one thing that will alway releave stress and that's the deer pins. We all need to remember it's not always the bottom line but enjoy what we have and raise our deer because we love the lifestyle! Have fun !!!!! Jim
 
great story Roger thanks for sharing may you, your family, and your herd have another great 15 years.
 
Roger you know I like you and Laurie and respect your opinion and love your ability to promote your farm.



My part in the discussion is pointing out what I think will make the industry stronger in this hard economic times. I would hope the boards of all State groups would address the hunting and industry image and put more emphases on this area. With that said I’ll move on to what I also love.



I still wake up each morning thinking about deer and breeding projects even after all these years. Matching pedigrees up to produce that next big buck. The excitement and love for this industry has not lost its shine. I have my breeding set up for 2011 on deer. My wife thinks I’m nuts.



Even though we have been attacked and lost our harvest facilities and some of our business because of the RMEF, Wildlife Federation and our own DNR I still have deer and elk. I did not let those that were against this industry and wanted to kill the industry take this away from me as others did. Guess that is why I'm the only deer farmer in the State. I raise them because they make my day and will till I can no longer take care of my animals.



As some of you know my mule deer project has produced a white pied female fawn. I can see white mule deer bucks on my ranch in the future. I’m very excited about this project. Semen collection from great mule deer is another interesting project I really enjoy.



I have Rocky Mountain goats and I’m the only person who has collected semen from wild harvested goats and AI’d that semen into my goat herd. I did eleven females and got nine that took. I’m very proud of that.



I really love watching the big bulls bugling this time of year. Gathering up their girls and showing how tough they are with their pushing and shoving.



Watching the big bucks is one of my greatest pleasures. Meeting and talking with others in the industry and making some very good friends along the way make's life fun.

The deer and elk industry is a fine life and I’m proud to be in this industry.
 
Did anyone else that was watching on-line or in person during the PA sale find it cool when Dave Griffith had his grandson up in the front of the room with him?

I was watching on-line and found that really awesome. When they were up there talking I thought to myself what other industry is so much a family centered way of life. Truly an American values way of living is one key feature of the whitetail industry. I really enjoyed seeing that:)
 
Yup it was real cool to see and even better to see it in person!!!Will got up before their lot came up and said some great words about what great things dave has done for the pa deer farmers and the deer bizz as a whole!!!Was a great thing to see and hear and from what little bit i know of them very well deserved!! Just to let ya know i had jake

griffith and his buddy dustin up here turkey hunting with me and there will be some class coming out of that farm and family for years to come!!!
 
The miss and I where talking about that over supper sat. I to thought it was great.

Having four kids of my own and raising them in the outdoors and also around deer farming i bealive it has built great charactor in them all. there ages range from 7 to 2 years of age and they are always willing to jump in and unload Alfalfa, bags of feed, or even bottle feed with out being asked. I think its just great having them be able to be apart of this thing with us in a age of vidio games and tv if you know what i mean!
 
I was told not to forget the women! and all that they do in the pens and behind the seens. Ladies thank you for all the time you put into us guys. The endless discusions on breeding, fawning, and feed. But mostly for following us on our dreams and being apart of our lives!( and tuggen on the chain when we get out of control)
 
This is also one of the talking points we relay to the Senators and Congressmen on the NADeFa D.C. Fly In.How Deer Farming is allowing families to stay together on the small farms in Rual America.I too have 2 boys Chip and Adam.I look forward to the day I can stand in front of the bidders w/ my grandsons and tell about our farm and animals.

Is this a great Country or what?
 
The positive side of a down market as others have commented is now a person has the opportunity to purchase quality deer cheep. This week I purchased a tame three year old buck that scored 294BC buck with 16 and 17 ½ inch tines and a 24â€� inside spread. (scored by an official scorer) The best part is it scored almost 250 typical. I am excited to breed with this deer. It has short beams 25â€� and short G1s 7’ but should cross well with our does that have long G1s and 30â€� beams. Is a 270â€� typical buck possible? I am hopeful. That is what keeps the passion alive for me in the deer industry.
 
Again I say now is the time for deer farmers who have been in the business for many many years to purchase quality cheep does so they do not have to feed five year old shooters 120BC. And then expect hunting ranches to adjust their prices according to the amount of feed that went into them instead of what is on their heads.
 
andy you couldnt of said it any better now is the time to prosper with better deer if you still have deer that cant produce good shooters by age 3 i know 2 years ago thats what i did and im very excited to see what next year brings as ive had my best crop of yearlings ever they might not be 200" yearlings but all are 8 points or better my bigest a 14 point all have a clean look what seems to be what the hunters want with just enough xtras being spit brows or split g tines also 2 of them have drops as well as my 2 year old breeder rockys power point who should score 200" thanks to allen frey for allowing us to purchasse him as a yearling we are also in the process of adding some more does and possibly a new breeder to our program as well. this being said this is what keeps my wheels turning and me happy good luck to all and hopefully we can enjoy whats left of the year and look foward to next year or the up and coming breeding season
 
Wildobessionwhitetails What a positive attitude you have. Your eagerness to move forward even gets me excited. I have never got any where when looking back word. Keep looking forward

May your new genetics be a blessing to you
 
Wisdom look on the bright side.next year you might be able to buy his now hot yearlings as two year olds for $350.Dennis is right you guys sit here and harp on how bad the deer bizz is and then talk up how cheap deer are now and how you just made a great buy from some pour guy that cant make the feed bill with his deer.If you wanted to make this a better place you could have gave the guy atleast what the shooters were worth but it sounds like you had a big smile on while you ripped the pour guy off!!!

Have fun with your new breeder while that guy takes down his pens!!!!!
 
as for me selling my yearlings for 350.00 that wont happen not only are my deer a hobby and a joy to watch grow but i have a place for them to go in the end where there will be a return heres how i see it a animals like a car or house its only worth what someones willing to pay for it and with the way the economy is maybe the deer are just getting what fair market allows for it to get 2 years ago i paid good money for the deer i purchased to turn my dreams around but i did not spend my life savings or retirement on it neither for those people that did i feel for you right now its seems like the deer bussiness is like a stock market when the markets high you sell high when its not you sell low and the guys who can afford to continue in this industry should better there herd with hopes to carry on some things in life appreciate in value while others depreciate if you can raise bigger deer at 2 than raising 130" deer at thre you should still make profit everything in lifes a gamble roll the dice get a 7 or 11 your a winner sorry if i went off track or offended anyone but thats how i feel choose wiseley before making a purchased and if you dont have as good quality of deert to take you to another step then nows the time top buy if you can buy a doe fawn or a mature doe at a reasonsable price then buy dont think negative stay positive thats the only way to get through the rough times and for those that dont know or are still sleeping WAKE UP the economy is in a down fall right now
 
If you wanted to make this a better place you could have gave the guy atleast what the shooters were worth but it sounds like you had a big smile on while you ripped the pour guy off!!!

Have fun with your new breeder while that guy takes down his pens!!!!![/QUOTE]



I have never bought a deer from some one i didnt know. And were im from we build relationships witch means we will probably return and buy another deer from the same person in time. I think its a win win. They get rid of inferior stock i better my genetics! I still talk to everyone we purchased from last year. But did i pay wha the animal was worth i would like to think not!Its like buying a house thats marketed for 200,000 and you get it for 180,000 you got a good buy with some equity right.



So i say great buy stay exited, keep building realtionships, and get them 130 class shooters at 2.
 
Come on guys ripped off. I've been in the deer business thirty years and in other business's another twenty five. I've always established the retail price of products. I have never in my life had someone say that's too good of a deal and I will pay you more.

I don't expect there is one person out there that would have given this guy more and still taken all his deer. There is no one at fault here. The price was requested and someone paid it. That's called business.



News flash business is bad but then it's bad for many product producing industries. Most of us are still selling our product, sure prices are down but they will come up as we beat this recession. Yes some of the problem is caused by this recession. But our real cause is a lack of need for our product.



I'm going to harp again on changing our industry direction which we can make better for all of us by putting more effort into our harvest facilities image with good advertising nationally. Any business that needs customers does advertising. If a business has an image problem they advertise. Where has our advertising been? Look how well our breeder market has been with advertising. If that same effort was placed on our harvest market and done for the last ten years, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.