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Guys....everyone makes good points here......but we can bicker and bicker and it all comes down to the same thing........we have to many deer and the demand for them is not there........it does not matter the size of your Bucks right now........there are not enough Hunters on board with the High fenced hunts at this time to buy up all of our deer......the only option we have is to promote the high fenced hunts and win over the Hunters. We do this....the preserves sell more hunts.........and need our deer. The breeder side of the market has peaked to say the least........New farmers fed this market.......I don't believe this can continue or atleast I hope not as we have enough deer already and new farms just mean more deer. Let's focus on how to fix this issue and not point blame on why its happened. just a thought....
 
Took the words right out of my mouth Dennis. We don't have to place blame or attack anyone. Times changed so very fast in our demand verses supply, you might say there was a complete turn around in this situation and we now have more supply than demand.



Our direction should be what will help make our market healthy again? It is so obvious to me that our industry has not attended to our end market for our product. Nothing has changed in the way the industry has handled this part of the harvest industry for the last ten years. Please fellow deer breeders help make the move to try to fix this industry problem by making the industry advertise our harvest facilities. What will it hurt to try to promote this part of the industry. I view it as a sound business practice that might save the shooter market. I sure don't want to continue the direction we have been on in handling the harvest part of our industry.
 
not to be negative but if some guys have a surplus of shooters right now and cant move them then save yourself some money in feed vet bills etc by cutting back on your breeding program and not flood your own pens with deer you cant move i know alot of guys thast held on to there shooters last year in hopes to get better money for there deer this year but now you will only loose more money as you have another year of feed in this deer so unless you want to keepo loosing more money then maybe you should let some of them deer go and get something out of themif you r not tb tested thats something to look into getting done ive had people from missori,forida and ohio call wanting to by shooters off me i guess they got my number from a directory if i can find the number for the guy in florida i know he was paying good money like jack said who wouldnt pass up a good deal im sure the guy told andy this is what i want and thats what he paid someone told me the other day they new a guy that bought 2 200" bucks for i beleve 300.00 a peice did the guy selling care obviously not i know me id rather watch him grow till he dies before i sold for 300 but tell me if yoo could buy that deer you wouldnt your fulll of ---- as far as when you go to an auction and buy a deer or a farm and buy a deer if you didnt think you were getting a deal you wouldnt have bought it if you buy semen on whitetail exchange for say 250.00 but off the farm its 1500 then i quess its shame on you shouldve bought it off the farm or have given the owner more than what you paid for it so you can help the industry stay a float so one way or another we are all quilty of getting a good deal
 
Robert,



I know you and have always respected your honesty. Hell we bought our first deer off of you and what a boy he is. You also are running a muck with the Pies this past year from my understanding. What do have planed for next year? Breeding just for them or the whites? Here is the latest pic of the buck fawn we bought from you 2 years ago.
 

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Let me ask this...If there is to many shooters and they are only worth crap then why is it that it will still cost a guy thousands of dollars to hunt a deer that the preserve just paid hundreds for?????It cant work both ways if a 130 is worth $350 why does it still cost a hunter 2 grand to have it...
 
To everyone interested I am sorry you misunderstood the purpose of why I typed what was read. #1 I did not need the man’s shooters nor did I want them. I have more deer than I need at this time #2 The owner priced the shooters to another person and he did not want the shooters. When a seller prices deer or anything else and another person the purchaser said yes. Why is the buyer is at fault when he did not set the price. How many of you breeders would turn down a straw of Max Boe semen for $1000. If you bought it at that price would you be guilty of taking advantage of the seller when seller set the price.

The reason I put this on the forums is because for years I have been telling the deer industry we need more hunters to harvest the shooters we are all producing to ensure a strong future and maintain prices. I do not want to be the one telling everyone the sky is falling but for some breeders in Pa. it sure as hell is. Some breeders think they are locked in with a hunting ranch and they will by all their shooters. Well rethink that. What if enough breeders in your state that are not selling their shooters get discouraged and decide to quit and cut their losses. What if these breeders when to the ranch you are selling your shooters to and said, I want to sell you all my deer cheep, do me a favor and take them. Once the ranch has enough shooters there is no market for your shooters.

How many of you have ever went to a deer auction and got a deal and when paying for it said to the casher. That’s to cheep let me give you another $1000

Wake up it is a buyer’s market. Supply and demand rules all of our lives. Cheaper prices will determine who sells their product and who sits on them for another year.

For years my words have been falling on deaf ears to advertize the hunting end of OUR industry. Wake up breeders or more of you will be selling your shooters for $350.
 
once again couldnt agree with you anymore i pretty much said the same thing in an earlier post with purchasing deer from auction or farm and buying semen at a good buy from w.e. were all quilty of getting a good deal guys no one complains about when a guy purchases a new breeder and doubles the price for semen or has someone partner with them to make more of what they got because of the persons name they partner with so lets not just single out one person at the end all we have is each other to try making things work we have no big goverment to help us so lets get along and continue to work as a whole to make things right not fight over jealousy or those who are making money number one the market is flooded alot of people thought they woud get rich because of seeing what deer or semen were doing at auctions and thought they to would get the same in return for there animals the guys who are making money started at the bottom like the rest of us and earned theyre way to the top and others bought there way to the top this is nothing different than any other business but as a whole we can make it better
 
I am speaking to a select few when I say this. It is time some of you guys get your heads out of your *** and quit pointing fingers at each other and the hunting ranches. What benefit is it to a hunting ranch operator who is tired of working 80 hours a week and tired of dealing with hundreds of hunters, gutting and skinning dead animals. If there is a strong completive shooter market the ranches will have to pay more for our deer. Do you not realize by encouraging the industry to advertise the end product me and all other ranches will be forced by the law of supply and demand to pay higher prices. I care so much for this industry I am willing to pay higher prices if this comes to pass.

Until then, you decide to sell your deer for market price, feed them another year or buy a couple of freezers
 
Mike,

Yes you are right on the retail price of hunts. They haven't come down very much. The problem is our supply is so high with shooters this makes for a harvest facility buyers market. There is always guys that will sell their shooters and take whatever. Desperation on moving their animals has caused this problem. Until we increase the market for shooters or less people raise those extra shooter that caused this situation we will have this buyers market for a long time. Supply and demand does rule this industry like any other commodity industry.



Like Andy, I have tried to get the industry to advertise our harvest facilities more aggressively for the last ten years. Three of us in the Montana harvest market did put out thirty thousand in advertising money when Montana had harvest facilities. We felt it did help the industry image. I'm only sorry we couldn't get the Montana organization to get on board with this idea. Maybe Montana would still have harvest facilities if they had.
 
Robert Bittinger said:
it`s hard to stay off this fourm.no good deal anymore. but this it what im talking about.thanks matthew,your are a kind person and a good friend.these bucks.$300 an $400 so somebody can kill at a reserve for $$$ many,many times more.i had a good year with white an piebald fawn.they seam to go better at bottle time for me.ontill that gets flooded.i don`t have many years left in this rat race.the best to all of you.kingdom acres.
Click to expand...



Robert in most cases the hunting ranches are not setting the prices. The breeders are.



On another note. A breeder called me the other day and he has 37 deer for sale some are white, some brown and mixed pies. Since you did so well. He priced them at $6500 for all. I do not need them. Here is your chance to purchase his whole herd for $175 a peace and help a fellow breeder out. If you feel you are taking advantage of him offer him another $25 to $50 on top of the $175 I am sure he would be grateful. But beware if you do buy them, some people will still think you took advantage of him
 
gentlemen, i dont mean to be a jerk here but there are hundreds of other threads on here that have the same discussion over and over again. And i now know it it hard to start a thread with out this topic coming into it. However and what ever the reasons we are all doing this thats what i want to talk about! its not be turning a blind eye or hideing from the truth. The market is down we need to do something. Thats on threads by others. I just wanted to get some conversation going about why we are doing this, why its worth sticken it out. Why we all dothis thing we call deer farming. So if you lost that spark and fire, Reading some one elses post about being excited migh give you that motivation to keep on going, keep on fighting. I have not made anyone money on my deer i like many others each your throw money at there deer. But i dont think anyless of my farm, your farm, our our industry. if there is never to be any money in deer ever again i will keep going. I love it injoy it. But for someone to come on here and try to bring someone down about what they are doing, the improvements they are making, and the things they are excited about is beyond me. If you are having that hard of a time doing this thing called deer farming. Im sorry maybe its just not for you! BUT dont crap on someone elses dreams because your is a nightmare.



In incourage you all like many others already on this thread have, find something about deer farming that keeps you going, we already know its not the market, what is it no mater how small or how big share it here. Maybe your story can inspire some one else. Leave the other stuff out.
 
Wisdom said:
To everyone interested I am sorry you misunderstood the purpose of why I typed what was read. #1 I did not need the man’s shooters nor did I want them. I have more deer than I need at this time #2 The owner priced the shooters to another person and he did not want the shooters. When a seller prices deer or anything else and another person the purchaser said yes. Why is the buyer is at fault when he did not set the price. How many of you breeders would turn down a straw of Max Boe semen for $1000. If you bought it at that price would you be guilty of taking advantage of the seller when seller set the price.

The reason I put this on the forums is because for years I have been telling the deer industry we need more hunters to harvest the shooters we are all producing to ensure a strong future and maintain prices. I do not want to be the one telling everyone the sky is falling but for some breeders in Pa. it sure as hell is. Some breeders think they are locked in with a hunting ranch and they will by all their shooters. Well rethink that. What if enough breeders in your state that are not selling their shooters get discouraged and decide to quit and cut their losses. What if these breeders when to the ranch you are selling your shooters to and said, I want to sell you all my deer cheep, do me a favor and take them. Once the ranch has enough shooters there is no market for your shooters.

How many of you have ever went to a deer auction and got a deal and when paying for it said to the casher. That’s to cheep let me give you another $1000

Wake up it is a buyer’s market. Supply and demand rules all of our lives. Cheaper prices will determine who sells their product and who sits on them for another year.

For years my words have been falling on deaf ears to advertize the hunting end of OUR industry. Wake up breeders or more of you will be selling your shooters for $350.
Click to expand...



Wisdom,

I surely do hope we wake up...and yes you have been pushing for us to market our High Fenced Hunts as I have supported this as well.........to argue that you or anyone else is bad for getting a good deal is silly........this is going to be the norm very, very soon if we don't take this to the next level!
 
Robert Bittinger said:
it`s hard to stay off this fourm.no good deal anymore. but this it what im talking about.thanks matthew,your are a kind person and a good friend.these bucks.$300 an $400 so somebody can kill at a reserve for $$$ many,many times more.i had a good year with white an piebald fawn.they seam to go better at bottle time for me.ontill that gets flooded.i don`t have many years left in this rat race.the best to all of you.kingdom acres.
Click to expand...





Robert,

With all due resect and I mean this.......we are all frustrated and all have deers filling our pens.....but taking the stance that you are is going to do nothing to fix the issue we face in the Industry. People are going to continue to get good deals as farms close their doors. All we can do is focus on what is going to help us all..........and that is bringing more end users into the market.
 
Sorry Matt

I think you started a great thread to keep us focused on why we started raising deer. No matter what happens I will never regret breeding whitetails and I am so thankful for the awesome relationships with others that have evolved.
 
This afternoon I returned home after being gone working since Sept 3rd. After being met by the best wife anyone could ever ask for, and then getting a bite to eat I went outside with Laurie to sort of relax and spend some time with my deer.

It always is such a relaxing feeling having all the girls standing around me wanting to be petted and looking for peanuts. Also looking at the boys with their big racks and starting to act a little rutty on such a nice peaceful evening. It simply doesn't get any better than this:)

After flying more than 45,000 miles and crossing every time zone in the world at least twice, and hauling all sorts of products to several different countries, it is nice to have such a great lady and my awesome deer to come home to. It was a trying schedule this month, and it hit it's worst about midnight Alaskan time when things got a touch hairy during a mechanical issue during approach to landing in less than favorable weather.



I love my wife and I love raising deer. It gives me a great feeling of peace and comfort:)
 
Guys there is no sorry's needed here. Welcome home Roger, another great post! You know i have been told its not work if you injoy doing it, and its not your passion if you wouldnt do it for free! I love this bussiness and all the people in it.



And is it not what its all about, great Family and good friends togeather on this wild adventure called Deer Farming! Have fun you all, stay fired up, and share the excitement with someone else.
 
Circle J Ranch said:
Guys there is no sorry's needed here. Welcome home Roger, another great post! You know i have been told its not work if you injoy doing it, and its not your passion if you wouldnt do it for free! I love this bussiness and all the people in it.



And is it not what its all about, great Family and good friends togeather on this wild adventure called Deer Farming! Have fun you all, stay fired up, and share the excitement with someone else.
Click to expand...



Mathew,







Great post.....I love my deer and everything about them they do bring peace and joy all year around......if it's not watching racks growing it's watching fawns being born.......without a doubt it is an awesome business to be involved in.!!
 
The big thing that turns me on about deer farming is the the people and the structure. I have my on business that i have had to build from scratch, and we to are struggling. But deer farming has national groups, state groups, this forum, and all these great people in it. Everyone willing to lend a hand and help with questions. I wish other business came with such an owners manual if you know what i mean. Where else can you go to jsut type in a queston and get 80 different ansewers.



So i tell you in a down market we all should be thankfull to have each other to lean on and to inspire because it beats the alternitive of being in another business buy yourself with no one or no ansewers in times like these



so i do thank you all
 
Robert

Those are sure some gold nuggets to ponder and take to heart. Thank you for sharing.
 

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